Securing wireless routers...mine ain't!
 

Belkin wireless, N750 DB.

I have an admin key, and supposedly a network key, but I was able to get online wireless using my Pismo and wasn't asked for a password at all!

The tech people think that my Pismo somehow "learned" the password and I can't talk them out of it. The manual nor router set up page are clear on how to make it so that a passwords is required to enter my wireless network.

Anyone know this router well enough to core dump me on the steps to secure my wireless network?

thank you,

a

Seems easy enough!
Just change your Belkin's network security password.
Your Pismo can't connect without the correct password, so it will not connect after you change the network password, and will ask for you to provide that changed password.

What type of wireless security do you have set in your router?
WEP? WPA/WPA2?
If your Pismo has an Airport wireless card, then WEP is likely the only security encryption that will work. That at least gives you a password, but one that can be broken within a minute or two at the most - and not really a secure form, but an old Airport card won't connect to the better WPA/WPA2 security.

Here's the thing...I did change Belkin's network password, and when I tried to get on the wireless network, I did so without being required to give a password.

wasn't even asked!

we're using WPA/WPA2..the Pismo has a 3rd party wireless dongle...a DLink thing, which hooks the wave.

In past, on the pismo with this dlink unit, I have successfully gotten onto secure wireless networks in the past...networks which required me to enter passwords, especially the very first time, which mine did not.

so..I have to assume that as long as I have the wireless turned on, I got a wide open doorway and I don't know how to lock it...despite my having entered a passkey into the right spot.

thank you!

a

If you just changed your d-link network password, and the Pismo still connects immediately without asking for that new password - then I have to assume it's not connecting to YOUR belkin network, and is connecting to another wireless router or access point that is detected from your location. Is that possible?
I guess the quickest test is to turn your Belkin router OFF, and check to see if the Pismo is connecting to something else - what do you think?

I didn't change a d-link password. what I expected to happen but didn't is that the wireless network emitted by the belkin router would ask for a password. When I shut off wireless using the belkin set page, the Pismo could no longer see my wireless network, so that's good...


but when it was turned on, all I had to do was select it from the list of networks available, hit connect and I was on lickety-split.

I was careful to select my network from the others in the list...my network's name is significantly different from all others in my vicinity.

thank you!

a

The d-link (your wireless card?) doesn't require a password.
But, your Belkin router (the wireless network), or any other protected wireless connection does.
If your wireless card connects to the Belkin without asking for the Belkin password, then it knows what that password is, because it has been entered in your Network connection previously, and the wireless network password is stored in your keychain.
That's how it works, and that's the only way it works.
Test that by changing the network password on your Belkin.
Make that new Belkin network password completely different from anything you used before.
I'm sure the Belkin router will restart itself after you change the settings.
Then, try to connect to the Belkin from your Pismo.
It will then ask you for the new password - which is what you will expect at that point.

well, here's the thing...there is *no* way for the Pismo to have known the password. It is a unique one I've never used before yesterday, and the very first time the Pismo had a chance to get on that network, it got in password-free.

I will try changing the belkin password again. But, should that fail to present the Pismo with a password prompt...what does that indicate?

weird, I know...

a

Then, I would guess that the Belkin does not have security enabled, or can't - because the Belkin is faulty.
My impression is that if you have to enter a password to connect to a wireless network, then there's some level of security set. If you don't need to enter a password - ever - then no security is present on the wireless router - it's not enabled.
Try connecting with some other laptop or other device that can connect wirelessly, to verify that same no-password-needed happens on other devices, too.
You could certainly try a hard reset of the Belkin, which will return the Belkin to factory defaults, then set it up again, including the security settings.
Do you need some help with that?
I think you know what to look for - two passwords (which you would us again, I suppose) - one for accessing the router settings, and the other to protect the network connection (that's your important one :D )
This is not to say you don't know what you are doing, but just encouragement to go through this step by step - don't overlook anything, like the WPA or WPA2 setting.

I think your router offers a guest network capability in addition to the normal password protected network. That's probably what you're connecting to. You're going to have to dig into your router settings to make sure you're setting a password for the guest network too.

Ah, OK, I missed that, and that makes sense, too, with what's happening.
I would think that guest access could be disabled, too - but, sure, that would be somewhere in the configuration pages....

OK.. I did see the guest portion of the settings, but didn't want to fiddle with it until I posted here..the accompanying PDF "manual" is thin with information about any of this...and tech help with belkin is...thinner yet.

I'll take a look at "guest" tomorrow after a night's sleep and will let you know how it turns out.

It is pretty exciting the prospect of having wireless here....secure wireless..

well, I couldn't wait...

dealt with "Guest" which was disabled...but I ENabled it and gave it a new SSID and new password.

both it and the non-guest networks came right up and I sailed in without a password.

what the heck? Is this belkin router simply un-securable?

I don't get it, completely.

Thanks!

a

router is also set up with "Access Point" DISabled, so that isn't it...

wonder if something under the hood is broken despite my believing I've set things to be secure by the config panel?

Can that be?

OK..little red-faced here...seems the key IS working. my wife had to type it in to pull in the network on her PC.

But the Pismo and it's DLink thing...it *appears* to be connected, but I can't actually load a web page in safari...which is good..means the wave is secure.

but....it shows all networks it can find as "WEP" Privacy.

My network is the WPA/WPA2

and I can't make it show WPA and can't get it to produce a password box.

what does anyone make of that?

thank you,

a

When you are 'connected' with your Pismo - open your System Preferences/Network pane, and look at the wireless network information. Is the IP address valid? Does it show you your router address? Does your Network show that the D-Link connects, but has a self-assigned IP address (in the range of 169.x.x.x - and x can be any number), which means that there's no valid connection

You have said several times that you can get on line with your Pismo with the D-Link card. Have you actually been able to browse with this setup, or is this as far as you can get, where it appears to connect without a password? Is the Belkin a recent addition to your home network - and has the Pismo actually loaded an internet page since you setup the Belkin?

Last question - Can you test if that D-Link can connect completely by turning OFF security on the Belkin, and then check to see if the D-link connects OK, and lets you browse.

You may be using an encryption level on the Belkin that is NOT supported on the D-Link card, which would explain what's happening.

not sure about the DLink's self-assigned IP number..I see numbers in the pismo's network pane but not sure which belongs to who.

but at anyrate, I turned on my "secure" wireless network, see that I am "connected" but when I type web addys like apple.com and cnn.com, or others, I get "can't find the server" which I take as some empirical sign that I'm not actually connected despite what the dlink pane says ("Connected")

in addition, I can't seem to load the Belkin's internal set up page without power cycling it, which seems pretty clunky...

are belkin routers any good? 3rd rate? we bought it at costco bcs of the return policy...so tired of horsing around with gear.

heh...

thanks!


a

OK..I can successfully log in AND get to the set-up parameters provided I shut off firewall and the other features behind "Advanced..."

not ideal, but..is this practice of shutting off the firewall, etc, during the moments of making router settings changes actually bad?

thank you!

a

When your D-link appears to be connected, what is the IP address reported in your System Preferences/Network pref pane?

well it's shut down now, but as I recall, it began 172. or 171. something..

it did appear to be "remembering" a wifi link from 2 years ago when we stayed at a motel, because it had that motel's name at the top of the list of networks...


do the above numbers provide any clues?

a

"bad" in what way?

It's better not to guess at what you saw as the IP address: Default IP address range will often be 192.x.x.x - but 171 or 172 may be OK, too.
It's relevant to know for sure that the address does NOT begin with 169.x.x.x, as that's an invalid address.

You can go into your System Preferences/Network pane, and you can view the list of preferred networks. You can delete the ones that you will be unlikely to ever to need again, such as the motel network, and you can also drag your current network to the top of that list, but it remains to be seen if the router will actually work with your d-link card, which may have some limitations because of the processor that you have in the Pismo. There may be little that you can do to make the connection work, outside of trying a WEP setting, or turning off wireless security entirely.

OK..if the pismo can't get on, I can deal. My wife's HP Pavilion (XP) Can, so my imperitive is making sure that only she can get on; that everyone else will be denied for want of the correct password.

Re: shutting off the firewall to administer the router..I mean is it bad to shut off the firewall for even the few moments it takes to adjust the router's settings?

...bad in the sense that I'm vulnerable for those few moments until I turn the firewall back on...

a

Try to not be too paranoid, OK? :D

You would not be browsing the internet, or doing anything else while you are changing your browser settings, would you?
As you have to go to a basic connection while you change your settings, and the internet connection is disconnected when the router restarts with the new settings - you do what you have to do.

Think of it as similar to getting a delivery at your house, which requires taking the fence down in your back yard because it's the only access to your basement door. You leave the fence down, until the task is complete, then you put the fence back up. Yes, your house is less secure, but it's part of the job - and, last step, the fence is back up - you would keep a watchful eye on the activities. Same with your internet, and you can curtail what you do while the changes are in progress. As I said, you won't be browsing while you make changes to your internet connection - doesn't make sense, does it?
When you're done making changes, the firewall goes back up.

heh..ok..I'll try not to be too paranoid!

;-)


but, is it common to have to shut off the firewall to access a router's internal page for adjusting settings?

your delivery analogy was nice, DeltaMac...point taken.

a

If the router required you to shut down the firewall first, and didn't give you any choice in the task, then there you are...
Or, your OS X firewall could have an exception to allow the router's address, and that would take care of that little question, too.

ok the second part is intriguing...is that something I can tell the firewall to allow? and if so, is it a security weakness that others could exploit?

a

I am about to delete the motel location, but the numbers shown are:

IP: 172.17.145.235
subnet: 255.255.255.0
Router: 172.17.1.1
DNS: 4.2.2.1 and 4.2.2.5

nothing but the subnet mask resemble what's here at this location.

thanks!

a