Eudora not deleting messages from server
 

OSX 10.2.6
G4 800 iMac
Eudora 5.2.1 paid
Earthlink/Sprintmail

Eudora is downloading mail OK, but when I use it to check mail a second time, I see 'deleting __[1, 2, 3, 4, however many messages I just downloaded]', even when no 'new' mail appears. Eudora doesn't download the same emails more than once, but when I subsequently use Mail.app, it downloads the messages that Eudora previously downloaded. Only once; then they're gone (ie, Mail.app seems to delete them from the server, whereas Eudora doesn't).

I was switching between Eudora (to compose and send and check mail) and Mail.app (to clear out the server), but this started getting ridiculous.

I then tried to switch to Mail.app, but am really unhappy with its address book, mail-sorting and attachment handling (I've sent the same attachment multiple times to recipients when Mail told me it wasn't going through!).

I've redone my Eudora settings (command-option-shift-control + Special, 'reset your settings?') a couple of times, and most recently I just tossed the whole file of settings as well as the backup file, trashed them and rebuilt from scratch. Yes, 'Leave on server for ___ days' is unchecked, as is 'Delete messages from server after emptied from Trash.' I've messed with the settings in that area a few times, to see if toggling them off and on would help.

This is making me nuts, and nothing I've read on the Eudora site or newsgroups, or received from Earthlink support (after many, many exchanges) has worked.

Any ideas?

Re: Eudora not deleting messages from server
 

No problem here, using one of the beta version of Eudora 6.0. I can't recall having that problem with 5.2.1 either.

So what I'm hearing is that you actually want Eudora to delete them from the server after you retrieve the messages, right? And you're using Mail.app to clear the server?

You could try Opt.-Clicking on Check Mail and check one of the boxes about deleting from server and see what happens. Maybe that would work.

Re: Re: Eudora not deleting messages from server
 

Correct on both counts. I was excited to read your suggestion of option-clicking Check Mail. Tried it with no luck. Thanks for the idea, though! Back to the drawing board.

:confused:

A small aside: the third time I tried option-clicking Check Mail just now, I checked 'Delete all messages on server (be sure),' rather than 'Delete all messages that have been retrieved.' Then when Eudora checked mail, it didn't receive the test email I'd just sent. But just afterwards I checked mail with Mail.app, and it DID download the test email.

Maybe I'll DL 6.0b. I've used Eudora for many years now and hate to see it go buggy on me.

Very unusual behavior. Can you give us more info on the mail server? Is it IMAP or POP? It could be that whatever command Eudora is using to remove mail is not playing nice with the mail server.

It's a POP server. I can't tell you much more than that, except that I have a couple of different personalities. One is for my old sprintmail address, which is a spam magnet, and the other is for my newer earthlink address. Both suffer the same non-deletion problem.

Here are a few lines from my Eudora log (with some details deleted), fwiw:

Thu Jul 17 12:58:47 2003
5970960 2:0.7.56 pop.earthlink.net 110 (1)
5970960 2:0.0.38 Successfully received _______

Thu Jul 17 17:10:10 2003
61004480 2:0.14.12 pop.earthlink.net 110 (1)
61004480 2:0.0.19 Successfully received _____

Fri Jul 18 05:23:06 2003
96342976 2:0.6.43 pop.earthlink.net 110 (3)
96342976 2:0.2.31 Successfully received support@earthlink.net, 7/18/03 5:02 AM -0700, Re: Email - Other


Thu Jul 17 13:08:07 2003
MAIN 8:0.23.30 ______@sprintmail.com
MAIN 8:0.0.0 enter the
MAIN 8:0.3.51 Dismissed with 1.
59765008 2:0.6.44 sprintmail.com 110 (1)
59765008 2:0.7.6 Successfully received _______

Some quick debugging hints:
telnet earthlink.pop.server 25
..the server response usually tells which software and version is installed

USER yourusername
PASS password
LIST
.. pick a message to delete, you can check which one with HEAD

DELE nr
and paste the error message (if any) here

Well, I'm out of ideas on this one. Eudora has been rock solid at doing tasks like this for me. Maybe, as some have noted, it doesn't play well with your server. But why?

One thing I'd suggest is to set things up to delete messages after one day. If that works, you'll never have more than that much on your server.

Very strange, I set my Mom up with Earthlink/Eduora last Christmas and it deletes messages just fine. I don't think it's anything with the mail server. There's something really strange going on here. I'm a bit stumped too. If you empty the trash in Eudora does it remove them from the server?

I am an earthlink user too
 

I am an earthlink user too I primarily use Outlook Express and Entourage....

All mail apps let you choose wether mail is left on the server for X number of days e.g. 5 days so that you might download mail onto multiple computers say home and office or portable and Desktop.

I suspect you settings are whacked out. ****

Let us understand if you use Apple mail you get the desired behavior, that is your mail deletes after downloading??? Just in Eudora you get this strange behavior?

-------------------------------
Your fellow Eudora users may be more precise.... I would Search for Eudora in the finder and put any prefs files in the Trash and go from there....
-------------------------------

On a side note Maybe there is somthing ****also wrong with your router. Some routera choke on mail but not web browsing etc. Do you have a broad band router. I used t o have nasty itermittant trouble sending mail with attachments before updating the firmware of my wireless router, a linksys.


On a more tangular note...
In my case (Apple mail's lack of built in real multiple users support e.g. Wife and self verus my personal and work email [re-createabe through box of Rocks software, stopped me from using it]).

Re: I am an earthlink user too
 

He's already done this..

err
 

Whoops.... Sorry About that......

Not to ask silly questions, but some settings files get rewritten unless the underlying app or service is still running.... How about wiping settings after a fresh reboot.

Otherwise I would have to go with the Try a Different version of Eudora camp....

"I've redone my Eudora settings (command-option-shift-control + Special, 'reset your settings?') a couple of times, and most recently I just tossed the whole file of settings as well as the backup file, trashed them and rebuilt from scratch. Yes, 'Leave on server for ___ days' is unchecked, as is 'Delete messages from server after emptied from Trash.' I've messed with the settings in that area a few times, to see if toggling them off and on would help.

This is making me nuts, and nothing I've read on the Eudora site or newsgroups, or received from Earthlink support (after many, many exchanges) has worked."

Re: err
 

Sorry, I've been away for awhile. More apologies, but I will address all the preceding posts in a scattergun fashion:

Before I left I did try some telnetting, but I confess to being a novice and didn't get too far with it (not as far as an error message).

I will try the 'leave on server for 1 day' approach, but am not optimistic. I can report that Eudora does NOT delete mail from server after it's been emptied from trash (yes, I did check that option, and then checked mail with Eudora two or three times before checking with Mail.app, which downloaded the messages).

I'm not using a router, broadband or otherwise.

I have a dialup connection for the moment.

"Not to ask silly questions, but some settings files get rewritten unless the underlying app or service is still running.... How about wiping settings after a fresh reboot."

Are you saying to launch Eudora, then leave it open while I wipe out the settings files?

As for trying a different version, I think (though am not positive) that this problem began in 5.1, persisted into my use of a beta, and continues in 5.2.1. And if memory serves, it began shortly after I made the switch to OSX (10.1.something or other), and has continued with each iteration of Jaguar. Eudora had been working like a champ for years before this.

And yes, both Mail.app and Entourage are deleting mail from the server where Eudora doesn't.

I'll be moving in a month or so, and will be switching to broadband, possibly with a new ISP. Am curious to see if things continue the way they've been. Meanwhile I'm getting a bit concerned having my mail and addresses dispersed throughout Eudora, Mail.app and Entourage.

Thank you all for all your suggestions! I think 6.0b will be my next approach, even if delete from server after 1 day works. Will keep you posted.

err :) Just the Opposite
 

If Eudora is open or even if you think it was closed...

I would reboot. Then Delete all prefs realted to Eudora. Delete or Move, and or rename the Folder that Eudora is in to a new location (do not delete it if there are addresses or mail you want).

Reboot again.
Then Try reinstalling known working version of Eudora... See What happens.
----------------------------------
You also could create another Jag admin user, login as said user and set up mail for that user with Eduora and see if you still have problems.
--------------------------------

On the issues with Attachments if you are reallly have plain jane earthlink as they merged with mindpring, sprint etc (that is your mail address= userrname@earthlink.net). *** The outgoing server below is better

Outgoing mail: Try using smtpauth.earthlink.net
Incoming/Pop mail: either use mail.earthlink.net or pop.earthlink.net

You have to choose the Option about your server requiring Authentication and check the box about logging in using username@earthlink.net and appropriate passsword. Do not however, Check the box (on this latter screen) that says Log in using Secure Authentication.

(not so) quick update
 

Installed Eudora 6.0b26 - no change in behavior (though it seems like every time I make a major change like this, the very first email I send to myself gets cleared from server properly by Eudora, then subsequent ones don't).

Still trying to figure out telnet. I was having success on my wife's iMac with Nifty Telnet or some other pre-OSX app, but she's back home and I'm banned from there. Reluctant to boot into 9 on my 'puter, and I haven't been able to get Terminal to log in to my mail account yet.

I WILL reboot and delete/rebuild Eudora prefs (I know, I know, but I've been really busy, and this will be the umpteenth time I've redone the settings from scratch). Soon.

re the smtpauth.earthlink.net setting: I've been using that with Eudora for awhile already and it works fine. Mail.app doesn't seem to like it, though (not as configurable, or at least not as easily configurable).

My original email address is a sprintmail one (it's a total spam magnet now, but I maintain it via Webmail and ELN's spamblocker, which does a good job of keeping junk out, thought it's a bit of a chore to use via dialup). My 'official' addie is an @earthlink.net one. Sometimes I wonder if having these two addresses might be part of my problem, but Eudora's personalities always handled it perfectly in the past.

Except when ELN would make some unannounced change to mail handling. Even now you can get various sets of conflicting information (settings) on their support pages and via email support. But that's another can o' worms.

Thanks again for all the ideas. I'm determined to resolve this!

running out the door update
 

If anyone's still reading this thread:

As Anthlover suggested, I rebooted after putting all Eudora settings in trash. Rebuilt settings yet again . . . problem persists.

Oops, on rereading, I see the suggestion was to wipe after a fresh reboot. Will try that next.

Also I tried downloading my wife's Yahoo POP mail; the same problem there. Eudora downloads the mail, but it leaves it on the server until I use Mail.app to delete it. So it's not an Earthlink/Eudora problem.

I couldn't find a setting for more detailed logging, and Eudora's log doesn't indicate whether it thinks it's deleted messages.

gotta run!

How is Eudora supposed to delete the mail on the server?
I only see specific 2 ways for to do this in Eudora (6.0xb).
1) Check & put in zero to "leave on server for 0 days", or 2) check "Delete from server when emptying the trash", which one are you using? Or are you just doing neither and expecting it to delete the mail on download?

Try turning on the logging feature of Eudora in the "Logging" preference. Besides the defaults, check 'Progress messages', 'Leave mail on server descions', 'Messages moved', and 'Protcol details'. Also, increase the log rollover size to 512k.
Maybe the logs will help shed some light..

Other Stuff to do
 

Besdies trshing all perffs after a Fresh boot I had also suggested deleting or moving/renaming Eudora folder.

Though if you need your mail/addresses you might want to back it up to cd or just rename...

Re: Other Stuff to do
 

Yellow:

I've never had to check either of the boxes you mention in previous versions of Eudora. I have messed with them since the problem started, to no avail.Hang on, I'll try it again. OK, just now, I tried the 'leave on server 0 days' - no help.

Searched Settings in vain several times when you first mentioned more-detailed logging. Then again when you mentioned it this time. Finally had lightbulb go on, and tried installing Esoteric Settings plugin. Ta-da!

Here are the results of my most recent session (underscores in place of name/addie/some numbers I didn't know what they were. Pardon my ignorance. If the UIDL sequence is vital, I still have it here.

And, fyi, I checked mail again after this with Mail.app, and the 'argh! testing' email got downloaded and deleted from server, as usual.



Sat Jul 26 02:30:22 2003
71340592 16:0.10.18 Contacting pop.earthlink.net (207.217.121.215)...
71340592 16:0.0.27 +OK NGPopper vEL_4_38 at earthlink.net ready <18706.1059211837@avocet>
71340592 16:0.0.27 CAPA
71340592 16:0.0.35
71340592 16:0.0.35 USER _______
71340592 16:0.0.42 PASS
71340592 16:0.1.5
71340592 16:0.1.6 STAT
71340592 16:0.1.19 LIST
71340592 16:0.1.35 UIDL
71340592 2048:0.1.47 UIDL 1 “_______” _____
71340592 2048:0.1.47 BuildPOPD: Old: 1 hash _____ gmt BB47FA75 FF ss tk dd
71340592 2048:0.1.47 BuildPOPD: Old: 2 hash 3BEC1E52 gmt BB47FA75 FF ss tk dd
71340592 2048:0.1.47 BUILT: Fetch: <empty>
71340592 2048:0.1.47 BUILT: Delete: <empty>
71340592 2048:0.1.47 BUILT: Old: 1 hash _____ gmt BB47FA75 FF ss tk dd
71340592 2048:0.1.47 BUILT: Old: 2 hash ____ gmt BB47FA75 FF ss tk dd
71340592 2048:0.1.47 ---
71340592 2048:0.1.47 BUILT: New: 1 hash _____ gmt BB47FAB0 Ff ss tk dd
71340592 2:0.1.47 pop.earthlink.net 110 (1)
71340592 2048:0.1.48 RETR 1
71340592 16:0.2.4 _____________, argh! testing
71340592 2:0.2.7 Successfully received ____________, 7/26/03 2:30 AM -0700, argh! testing (1)
71340592 16:0.2.11
71340592 2048:0.2.12 AFTER: Fetch: <empty>
71340592 2048:0.2.12 AFTER: Delete: <empty>
71340592 2048:0.2.12 AFTER: Old: 1 hash _____ gmt BB47FA75 FF ss tk dd
71340592 2048:0.2.12 AFTER: Old: 2 hash ___ gmt BB47FA75 FF ss tk dd
71340592 2048:0.2.12 ---
71340592 2048:0.2.12 AFTER: New: 1 hash _____ gmt BB47FAB0 FF ss tk dd
71340592 16:0.2.16 QUIT

Sat Jul 26 02:30:30 2003
MAIN 16384:0.7.25 Transfer "_____,argh! testing" "000001"->"In"
MAIN 16384:0.0.1 Delete "_____,argh! testing" from "000001"

That's the end.

Anthlover: I will try renaming the Eudora folder, and doing the other stuff in the order you prescribed.

Thanks to both of you again for your suggestions.

Incorrect.

1. "Leave on Server for nn days" must be unchecked, then mail will be promptly deleted from server after received by user. If checked and zero days, I don't know behavior, but it is perhaps likely mail will never be deleted.

2. "Delete from server when emptying the trash" only affects messages that user has deleted. Eudora moves such messages to its Trash folder. If checked, the messages in the Trash folder are removed from the server when the Eduora Trash is emptied. The setting is irrelevant for any other purpose.

1) how can you say it's incorrect if you've never tried it?
2) How is this incorrect? The user is trying to delete mail from the server in Eudora. This is one of the prescribed ways. It is completely relevant for this purpose.

While I am sure you are correct 0 normally is Equal to unlimited aka Never
 

While I am sure you are correct for Eudora

0 sometimes is Equal to unlimited aka Never Delete:

Many mail clients default behavior is to delete and if you put in a number of days 1 to X it saves it for that many days.

Re: While I am sure you are correct 0 normally is Equal to unlimited aka Never
 

Which by that reasoning, you would think that 'keep on server for 0 days' would mean delete immediately, therefore not keeping the mail for more than 0 days?

Leaving that field blank would mean leave mail on server indefinitely. However, since no one actually has tried it yet but glories in saying that it's wrong, I will try it and see.

So, 0 does appear to be the same leaving it blank. Please don't bother with choruses of 'I told you so', guessing != trying. ;)

:)
 

:)

Was not disagreeing.

Zero is either "Never" or "Now". Usually Never. (aka Never Delte or Delete Now).

Every Application is of course unique all these decisions were up to the programmer.

Thanx for running the Test

1. Obviously, you're ignoring YOUR ignorance regarding the checkbox. Maybe you've learned since then, but your original post remains incorrect.

2. As I stated, the setting only affects mail that was manually deleted by the user to Eudora trash. But you completely ignored that detail, thus your post was incorrect.


Your original post was completely wrong, and your attempt to hide that fact or argue about it is not very admirable.

Re: Re: While I am sure you are correct 0 normally is Equal to unlimited aka Never
 

I agree that's a reasonable expectation, but it is not how many applications behave.

In such cases, the zero represents an unlimited number days, rather than zero days. It's a shortcut used by programmers for applications that only support a limited finite number. Allowing zero to represent an unlimited number gives the user an extra option.

I agree that zero should mean zero, but that is not always the case.



Although I said I did not try zero, in the past I have tried entering large numbers and the parameter was finite (at least in older versions). This, combined with the fact that the standard setting to delete mail immediately includes checking the checkbox, it was likely Eudora would leave mail indefinitely.


Thus, I told you so.

Yellow, your original message clearly indicated you did not know how Eudora works, for reasons stated previously.

Further, yellow, YOU are the one who made your ENTIRELY INCORRECT claim originally, WITHOUT doing any testing.

Play Niice:)
 

Play Nice:)

... To Summarize there are three sets of Behaviors to be concerned with in regards to mail on server and Clientt side switch settings.


1) Is mail Deleted after Downloading to a single system

2) Is mail Deleted after downloading and Moved to Eudora Mail Trash (by Clicking Delete button or Delete message Icon).

3) Or Is mail Deleted After Empyting of Eudora Trash or ( Long Clicking/Right Clicking Delete message form Server (assuming that is even a Eudora option).

-------------

In the case of Eudora I have no first hand knowledge of these switches.

Good Luck.

Re: Re: Re: While I am sure you are correct 0 normally is Equal to unlimited aka Never
 

I cannot find where it is clear that I don't know how Eudora works. What I didn't know was how the original poster was expecting Eudora to delete messages. That being a fairly important step in figuring out how to fix this problem. Be that as it may, my original post was was made in an attempt to help the user figure out what the problem was. Not being anywhere near a machine with Eudora at the moment made it difficult to test before suggesting. So part of my final suggestion was incorrect. But I try to test and make sure that I'm right before telling someone else that they are wrong. But that's just me. Flamed. Annoyed. So thank you, oh great and powerful oz for the partially useful clarification. I'm sure we're all a little more enlightened by your presence behind the curtain.

Anyway.. bengreens, is your Eudora log casting any light on the situation?

Re: Re: Re: While I am sure you are correct 0 normally is Equal to unlimited aka Never
 

So, Peaved, where you come from is everybody really rude to other people or are you just a special case?

You've been asked before (multiple times) to at least make a stab at trying to be civil to others here. Is this possible or not? If not, go annoy somebody else. I suggest these guys.

There's no attempt or effort on my part to be rude to anyone. I'm not responsible for how others respond to my posts.

Craig, I've been flamed by you and other moderators far more times than I could be accused of. At least all of my posts attempt to contain useful information.

The only intention in any of my posts is to provide accurate information, or clarify facts or opinions being discussed.

Sorry if anyone is offended. And sorry if this is not the proper place to post this kind of message, but it is a response to Craig's post in this thread.

Actually, you are, in part. If I call someone a jerk and they get upset, it would be disingenious for me to blame it all on their interpretation of my remarks.

Some of your posts seem unduly contentious; maybe that's just the way you talk, but there's no need to denigrate when disagreeing with others. Take responsibility for your actions and show a little more willingness to communicate good-will and a benefit-of-the-doubt with others, who are, after all, only trying to be helpful.

Phil

Phil,

I agree with your point.

However, take a look at my posts in this thread. The strongest language I used was [paraphrased] yellow did not know how Eudora operates. This was backed up with facts behind my opinion. And, it was limited to the specific details of the items being discussed.

That is NOT anything close to a flame, NOT anything close to "calling someone a jerk", NOT a valid reason for anyone to get upset, and, arguably, NOT even a rude thing to say at all.



At worst, perhaps annoying. But, far less annoying than incorrect information wasting people's time.

The constant accusations against my postings are misplaced. I try to do my part, but it is only more difficult when moderators are posting flames of their own, or tacitly allowing other flames against me to escalate.

Sensativity and Flame is context Speciefic
 

Sensativity and Flame are context Speciefic:

People that know each other well can be harder on each other and even enjoy the reporatie.

Please note it is not necessary to use Explitives or merely unkind words to Offend another human being.

Most People are extermely sensative to even constructive criticsim. Pointing out Firmly misktakes and saying you must not know or did not check will be taken as harsh (particualry if you critiqing a field they are suspposed to be expert in).

If you catch someone making an inccorect statement it is more socailly Palatable to use language like Perhpaps you missed X, or I suspect you may have made an error etc.

Hope this Helps kids

whoa, and the latest news
 

Yow, what have I touched off here? Deep breath, everyone, and revenons a nos moutons, as the sheepherder said, unbuckling his pants.

Yellow, to answer your question about what the Eudora log reveals, see my earlier post with the log entry. I don't know how to interpret it.

Last night I renamed my Eudora folder and hid it in the trash (and the Eudora application folder for good measure), then rebooted, installed a fresh copy of 6.0b26, rebooted again, entered fresh Eudora settings, sent myself a message, downloaded it, then opened Mail.app and checked mail, and downloaded the same message again.

Today I'm trying the 'leave on server for 1 day' approach, to see if Eudora deletes tomorrow. But I'm not very optimistic.

Will keep you posted.

Make nice!:)

Bengreens
 

FWIW, you can set your clock ahead 1 day and test now to see if it'll delete after 1 day.

If it was deleteing at download, (in the Eudora log) I would expect to see something more along the lines of:

Quote:

77598048 16:0.1.40 "The macosxhints Forums Mailer", Reply to post 'Eudora not deleting messages from server' 77598048 2:0.1.43 Successfully received The macosxhints Forums Mailer, 07/30/2003 2:36 PM -0400, Reply to post 'Eudora not deleting messages from server' (1) MAIN 16384:0.1.56 Transfer “The macosxhints Forums Mailer,Reply to post 'Eudora not deleting messages from server'” “000001”->“In” MAIN 16384:0.1.56 Delete “The macosxhints Forums Mailer,Reply to post 'Eudora not deleting messages from server'” from “000001”

bengreens,


There is no need to wait one day to test your Eudora behavior.

You can uncheck "Leave on server nn days", and mail is deleted immediately after you receive it.

Actually, that is not quite true.

1. Check your mail.
2. Check your mail again. The messages you received previously are first deleted, then you receive any new messages.

You should display the Task Progress window, so you can see what is happening. Open it under the Windows menu.


Also, Eudora shows you which messages are on the server or not. The column after message size and before subject will contain a little icon if the message is on the server.


Deleting messages in Eudora will NOT delete the messages from the server. Such messages are only moved to the trash folder, and treated as any other messages with respect to the server, except for Emptying Trash. When you empty trash, the messages are deleted from the trash folder. They remain on the server, however, unless the setting to delete from server when emptying trash is checked.


As for fiddling with your preferences files and settings, or checking logs, IMHO it is a waste of time. Eudora is an extremely reliable application. It even maintains its own backup of your settings, and it is highly unlikely for settings to be corrupted.




Good luck, and hope this helps.

*Sigh* They why doesn't Eudora delete his mail from the server when in it's default config (deletion as soon as it is transfered), and how would you trouble shoot it?

Thoughtful Posts
 

Thoughtful Posts:

However, I think we are back where we started unless B. tells us otherwise:

1) All Settings are correct (Yet Eudora on his machine no Delete with correct settings).

2) Apple Mail, Entourage, not Preferred but worky. No Update on overcoming issues related to Attachments.

3) B. For fun as Earthlink lets you make 8 accounts for the price of 1 do you want to try "test account.earthlink.net" or whatever.
****** Perhpaps the problem is email server specefic with you account?

*** Also Have you had access to antoher computer with Eudora where this Strange Eudora behavior does or Does not Occur with your account???

Good Luck.

Bengreens, I see that you had this from your log:

Quote:

Sat Jul 26 02:30:30 2003 MAIN 16384:0.7.25 Transfer "_____,argh! testing" "000001"->"In" MAIN 16384:0.0.1 Delete "_____,argh! testing" from "000001"

But this mail wasn't actually deleted from the server?

Again, that is incorrect. Eudora NEVER deletes mail as soon as it is transferred.

Read my previous post regarding how Eudora deletes mail. It will NOT delete until the next time you check mail.

Sorry, I don't have time to explain how to troubleshoot.

Eudora, however, is the least likely source of the problem here.

Perhaps you're using an older Eudora client.

I just sent myself some test mails, checked that it was there and marked as new in pine, checked mail in Eudora and downloaded the new test mails, went back to pine and the mails are gone. Deleted. Just to be sure, I checked my spool in /var/mail/. No test mails. Explaination?

Sorry, my mistake. Was referring to messages that were already on server and already received, but setting was since changed to not leave messages on server.

If setting is to not leave messages on server, then each message is received and deleted, then the next.

From looking at bengreen's log posted here, it appears Eudora is having trouble building table to know what has been read or not, or at least what should be deleted. Perhaps rebuilding mailbox will help. I think you hold option key and open mailbox window- check documentation or help for more info.

Also, leaving lots of messages in In mailbox is a bad idea and may cause potential problems. Rebuild and/or compact the mailbox after deleting.

Anthlover, thank you for the succinct and accurate recap of the problem. (and yes, it's still there). It happens on my computer (running OSX) with both my sprintmail and earthlink addresses. It does NOT happen checking either of those accounts via my wife's computer (running OS9.2.2 and Eudora 5.1 or something close).



yellow, that is correct. The mail was left on the server. I'll try setting my clock ahead a day; the suspense is killing me.

peaved, I believe I've rebuilt my inbox a few times in the past few months, (if it involves pointing at the mailbox size, command-click), but will look into it. Actually, scratch that. When I reinstalled Eudora while hiding the old folders, I was starting out with a brand-new inbox, completely empty.

thanks again to all for the suggestions.

Okay it is Unique to Your Computer or
 

Okay The problem is limited/Unique to your Computer, or at least Eudora 6.x on your Computer.

It would be nice to Isolate the Software ver. ,settings files, or the System software (even though we beat most of those issues to death already).

Is it possible to get 6.X Eudora on a system with X other then yours **and or** Run 5.x from Classic Just for completeness sake. ** What Version of Eudora is **Peaved and Yellow running??**

I am sure certain other Posters would want to take a more conservative approach. **** But there is one surefire reapair assuming, known working X native version of Eudora.
--------------

*** Acrchive and Install:

There are two Archive and Install Options, with and with out saving Apps and Users Prefs.

They both Take Your OSX Folder the ("System") Folder and Make it into a Previous one. If you choose to Save your Settings It will Save you from user setup where you assign passwords, It will save you from having to Drag things from your Applcaitons Folder to your new one, It will preserve your Desktop, Your Dock etc.

You will have to recreate printers and repatch the OS back to 10.26 etc. and counting, reinstall any custom drivers e.g. Carbon Copy Cloner, If you have any special non apple mice etc. You will have to reinstall Palm to make HotSync work correctly, but your data will still be there.

It is super fast compared to not saving your user settings.

In your case *** You would have to ***Not** Save user Settings as saving them would 99% certain move your problem to the system. This would mean manually dragging things from Desktop to Desktop, Apps to Apps and Reinstalling more Fussy Apps e.g. Photoshop etc.

If you had access to an external FW Drive (that be could to be using for back up too) you could just install another system on it.
Or Care to upgrade wiffee to Jaguar?

-------------------------
As always it would be irresponsible if did not tell you to back up your data "just in case" somthing unlikely happend or human error like you do a Format install etc.



Good Luck.

Re: Okay it is Unique to Your Computer or
 

Latest 6.x beta.

Did we have you try to create/login as another user on your machine and create a new Eudora profile and see if that fails to delete mail too? I can't find anyone suggesting that going through the previous posts.

I mentioned it at the start. It will cause no harm
 

I mentioned it at close to the start/July 21. It will cause no harm...

Thanx for the reminder, I do not remember B. trying it.

It is certainly worth a shot as it is partially Analgous to clean Archive install with out all the fuss.

B. How about it, Create another Admin Class user. And give it a whirl. And we can slog on from there.

Re: I mentioned it at the start. It will cause no harm
 

anth, you did indeed mention it awhile back and I've not tried it as yet. Will do that next (it's all a learning experience). Or first, will dig up an old Eudora installer and put Classic app on my machine to see how that fares.

To clarify a point you brought up about version: the problem has existed since I installed 5.2.1 (or perhaps even an earlier X version - I can't remember!) and has persisted into the 6.x beta.

Also, my wife would kill me if I installed X on her machine.

I do have an external Firewire drive (an old 40gb IDE drive I dropped into a Firewire case), but so far have had bad luck trying to copy my HD onto it. I like the idea of installing X on it and trying from there. The Archive and Install option you mention would be a bit too scary and time-consuming at this point.

Though I've been thinking about getting the new version of Norton Utils that makes a copy of your whole setup . . .

back to slogging!

Re: Re: I mentioned it at the start. It will cause no harm
 

Save your money and your sanity and invest some time (and $3-$50 donation if you like it) in Carbon Copy Cloner. An excellent piece of software that will clone your current startup volume to another ATA/FW disk. Really useful app.

Carcon Copy Cloner is Great
 

After User test...

Carbon Copy Cloner is Great..... And Only $5 Shareware Fee (app is not not disabled in anyway) honor system. It is certainly a perfect tool for what you want to do. Back up and Test on Virgin System without effecting yours.

It is for Creating Bootable and Not Bootable Clones of drives and Folders and can be used as back up to, System Experimentation etc. There are other tools. More later, that offer additional Options

Basically you Download it from Versiontracker... Or where ever

Norton really is **Not the way to Go***

As I had them from before here a basic Primer for CCC Note that it has a manual and for your purpose you do not need to use the Scheduler.

Feel Free to consult real documentation.... None the less here goes Current Ver. 2.2

The main interface (you will have to hit the padlock button and enter your password)
Or *** Many Choices will be Greyed out....

Prefs: (You will have to install Psync from within Prefs window to have all choices)
This you only have to do Once...

Then Make Bootable, Repair permissions, and sync are my Options, the latter because I want the changes to occur in both Directions you may not want this.


**** Source and Target Volumes: Choose your Main System as the Source and FW as Target... (ignore for now the rest of this Paragraph... There is also File Menu has Folder Cloning Options and you can also delete from, the big long list (I never do) that shows up when you select source and target).


Scheduler: Ignoroe for now: You can make a Scheduled Clone...
Check the Display task log (I like to see it every day) Set the time and Freq you want. Then and, only Then Hit the Plus Button and Give a nice name for the Script that indicates time and volumes involved (its tempting to create the Cron Job and then set the Prefs but that will not work/have what you want).

************************Main Buttons:

Log: Obvious

Help: Obvious

Padlock (to gain access to the features)

(Clone Button [To do an immedite Clone with out a Schedule])

You will get somewhere around 1/2 to 2/3 of gig a minute (e.g. 25 gigs would take around 40 minutes).

While the Clone is running CCC will not be responsive to Mouse Clicks. The rest of the system Dock etc. will be responsive (though you would not want to anything Radical while the clone is running).

When Complete you could go to System Prefs and Choose the Clone as a Start up Disk. Viola you have both a back up and Experimental system to work on.

----------------

Note: Other Posters have mentioned that CCC does not offer a actual file verfication feature, thus as a backup tool some might choose XSyncx or Retrospect etc.

The New User approach
 

Well blow me down: I created a new user, booted into it, opened Eudora and configured it anew, composed four emails and sent them to myself, checked messages and picked them up. Opened Mail.app, configured, checked mail: nothing!

Yay, sort of! But what does this mean, o Wise Ones? Are my system prefs corrupted somehow? And why would they be for Eudora but work for Mail?
Well blow me down: I created a new user, booted into it, opened Eudora and configured it anew, composed four emails and sent them to myself, checked messages and picked them up. Opened Mail.app, configured, checked mail: nothing! The way it ought to be.

Yay, sort of! But what does this mean, o Wise Ones? Are my system prefs corrupted somehow? And why would they be for Eudora but work for Mail? Next step?

Thank you for your long-ago suggestion, Anth, I feel sheepish for not having tried it before. And thanks yellow for re-suggesting.

And thanks for the CCC info; it sounds like a great app and well worth the puny shareware fee.

bengreens,

What result from deleting mail from server and not leaving it on the server, as we have suggested?

What result when you send mail from Eudora from your computer? Is mail sent?


Eudora is known to be extremely reliable. Thus, if the mail is not actually being deleted, it is more likely due to some kind of networking issue, such as lack of proper permission to delete data from the server.


Why haven't you contacted your server administrator for support?

What does your server administrator tell you?

The kind of problem you are experiencing should be relatively easy to remedy, for anyone with hands-on access to your server, let alone your email software.

It is a bit of a strecth to continue to rely on the trial-and-error shooting in the dark approach that has been given to you so far. I think in many cases you have been led to bark up the wrong tree(s), and perhaps vice versa, although I realize you and the others are still learning and have good intentions.

Yay So it is somthing in your user Account and Eudora
 

Yay So it is somthing in your user Account and Eudora:)

One simple way to resolve is Archive and install.....
******** More conserative approach will rely on sleuthing for which at the moment too tired to think of new root cause except Disk Related issues.... some concrete repair suggestions below.

Peaved, I'm thinking was tired too and must have written his post while you were writing your good news (***otherwise I am confused as his ?s in my tired state that do not seem to ackowledge the positive tidings:)

To answer your question in a Generic way.

Just as the problem is unique to your system (Yellow and Peaved have no problems with same App) And we ALL prooved together that it is not some strange interaction between Eudora and your specefic mail server account. And now you too have isolated it to just your Default Admin user....

1)If you have not have Go to your Drive Icon, Applications Folder, Utilites Folder and Drag the Disk Util over your Dock (to have ready Access).
Launch Disk Utiltiy and and From First Aid Tab run Repair Permissions, should take around 10 minutes, sometimes longer.

2) Also do not rembember if we have pestered you to run Fsck -y (Disk Check) this is Unix Standard repair Util. In order to run it effectively you have to boot into single user Mode. To run fsck boot into single user mode, hold down cmd and S at boot up) and run the following command /sbin/fsck -y

[Edit] Almost forgot your going to have to do
Sudo init 6
To Reboot

*****You want to run until # of times until you see no error messages, you should report error messages to us if they persist or perhaps if they do not.

3) I would Get Disk Warrior X around $65 It is in most of our opinion the best repair Utility out there. This is regardless of fixing your mail problem.

<grits teeth>

Great to hear BG! Glad we made some progress! See, OSXHints is useful sometimes. :) So it is something with Eudora in your user. Which we will figure out. So.. I still think there's something funked in a .plist or in your Eduora folder. If you're still willing to start from completely from scratch (with Eudora), I can give you a list of all the things to move to a 'neutral' location. Reinstall Eudora, recreate your settings, verify that it works or not, then copy in your mailboxes, signatures, etc.

--

There seems to be some misconceptions about how POP works. So to clear up some confusion so that others can learn, Eudora and Mail.app are being used with POP here. The command to delete mail is a standard of POP, and since both clients use the same standard, both connect to the same port on the server to communicate with the mail server to check/delete mail (port 110 [POP3]), it has absolutely nothing to do with the network. Since both clients connect with the same account & password it has nothing to do with permissions in sendmail/postfix/whatever Earthlink uses as a mail server. While I would agree that Eudora is a pretty robust application, it is certainly not without problems that other applications have. Settings/files do get corrupted.

Just a reminder to all who might have forgotten that this is a forum where people offer help out of the goodness of their hearts. We aren't paid to help anyone, and in many cases, all that can be offered as advice is what has been termed as 'shooting in the dark'. Naturally if any of us were sitting at BG's computer, this problem would have been solved long since. There are varying degrees of computer competency, very often some steps that have been suggested don't get done, don't get done properly, and questions that don't get answered. So we continue to try with goodwill to virtually help solve a problem with someone n miles/km away from us.

Disk repair stuff won't hurt ....
 

Disk repair stuff won't hurt/might help if it is Dir is what is at issue The prefs etc. too though I thought we got most of them already:)

Feel free to use Yellow's to delete list for the Prefs etc.

Yellow you got the list for Assanation..

Re: Disk repair stuff won't hurt ....
 

;) every time i write this word (don't worry, it's not that often) i spell it assination. however, i don't really know what assinating someone really means. :D assassination, i believe, is what we're looking for. and NO, this isn't a whiny post about improper spelling, i just cracked up for about 10 minutes after i read it because it made me happy to know i'm not the only one...

It should be obvious that my remark referred to the network as part of the system and as a whole. It's foolish to say that transferring mail across a network has nothing to do with the network.

Because bengreen's new OS X user account "works" and his previous account doesn't, it suggests some sort of permissions issue, or more likely configuration.

My previous remark about permissions was a little off the mark, I said it more for illustration than diagnostic purposes. Because obviously if Mail deletes mail from the same OS X user account, the issue is more specific.

However, from the server side, it should be more apparent what is actually happening between the application and server, and the server administrator may be aware of server side settings that are relevant to the problem. Thus, the server administrator should provide useful information to help diagnose the problem.

Lastly, it is wrong to assume what port is being used to transfer mail, without explicitly determining the port and confirming its use.


anthlover, it would be a nice trick if I could read posts from the future!


I'm happy for bengreen's getting closer to diagnosing and solving the problem.

As anaside about Post from the Future
 

What I meant is sometimes people writes a Post at around the same time and obviously the multiples Authors will not know about it until After they each post theirs, thus the messages pass by each other with OUT reflecting what was said in each.

And Yet one reading the thread later will not know they were not written in serial order.

----------

Also as I am sure you noticed Yellow and I Each posted in our own way a note in regards to NOT whacking the end user whom we volunteered to help....

I simply attibuted it to tiredness. Yellow as General reminder.

I never said that transfering mail had nothing to do with the network. I said the problem that BG is having has nothing to do with the "network", by which I meant (in this case TCP) packets flying to and fro, the usual definition of network. His network stack is not broken because Mail.app does POP3 just dandy. The server-side is not broken because Mail.app does POP3 just dandy. His Eudora -> network stack interface on his box isn't broken, because a new user works just dandy. Most likely, one of BG's config or a plist is corrupt.

While I won't disagree that the permissions (somehow munged) on/in his Eudora folder in his Documents folder could be a problem, I would expect to see other problems besides an inability to delete email on a remote server.

Sadly since this is Earthlink & surely Earthlink has hundreds of thousands of users using their mail servers over a distributed network, it maybe be difficult for BG to convince a first-line support phone techie to let him speak with someone who maintains one of their mail servers and have him/her/it check the logs for his specific POP requests.

Lastly, let me clarify. POP is a protocol, so all email clients that support POP should follow that protocol. Eudora happens to be one of those clients. Therefore, since Earthlink supports POP & BG is using POP (and POPs 1 & 2 are severely legacy), I think I am very safe in saying that all connections from that originate from BG's Eudora client to check his mail spool for new messages, send requests to transfer mail on a random high port, and send deletion notifications are all done on port 110.
Unless Earthlink has decided to move their POPserve from 110 to another port and forward 110 to it, which seems like a waste of time, but in the end is the same damn thing.

Again, yellow, you continue making assumptions that are only slowing down the process of getting bengreen's problem diagnosed and solved.


Personally, I have no knowledge whether or not "first-line support" at Earthlink can or cannot access such logs. yellow, since you indicate you have no such knowledge, either, perhaps you should consider what is best for solving the problem, rather than arguing about your own assumptions.


There is much assistance the server administrator can provide apart from your preconception that server logs must be examined.

Color me confused...
 

Color me confused...

Since we have Establsihed that Same Software Same computer same Earthlink account, etc. Same Eveything But the Computer User Log .......
****Works aka antoher Admin user ...

***Why are we having a lively discusion about network and Earthlink service etc.

Re: The New User approach
 

Well, honestly, it doesn't mean anything.

As I said many times already, Eudora is an extremely reliable application, it works fine.

And, you provided info that Mail on your computer worked OK. Thus, we have known that whatever problem exists is isolated to your Eudora configuration on your original OS X account and its interaction with your mail server(s).



So far, you have been asked to test deleting mail immediately using Eudora, checking the mail-on-server icons for messages, and contacting your server administrator for assistance. So far, I have not seen any information from you regarding these items.

To this list I will add that you should now compare your new OS X account Eudora settings with your old OS X account Eudora settings, and verify they are identical. Also, you could save your original Eudora Folder somewhere safe and out of the way, and replace it with your Eudora Folder from the new OS X user account. This will transfer your "good" Eudora settings to fix your "bad" Eudora settings. If this does not solve the problem, then the problem is outside of Eudora.

Because Peeved & I want to establish that one of us can win this p!$$!ng contest. I tire of having to explain/defend myself. I shan't debase myself any further arguing foolishly about foolish things with a fool, like a fool.

Consider the "Assanation/Assassination" list on it's way to being posted as soon as I have a moment to find all the pieces/parts.

JD I am probably the worst speller in the world
 

JD I am probably the worst speller and Typist in the MacOSx Hints arena, world even:)


Hey Admins!! Can you Extend my hours to modify. I find spelling errors and typos in my posts every time I read them. Too bad this web product does not support Spell check. Really should cut paste from word.


I must modify virtually eveyone of my Posts about 6 times on average:)

Cut and paste from TextEdit and not Word. Word mangles some characters when pasted, like the curly quotes and apostrophe.

Heck, if we extended the editing time, what would be the incentive to improve your spelling? ;)

Re: JD I am probably the worst speller in the world
 

Noooooo!! That's meeeee! You cannot have my medal and/or trophy back! :D

As for spelling, I tried to submit this as a hint but got denied (well it just disappeared into the ether), which is ok, because it's not really a hint.. but it's a secret and I shall share it with you and Craig now.. come closer.. pull my finger.. just kidding..

If using Safari, when entering your/editing your reply, if you right click (or cntl-click for those of you still insisting on using single button mice), a submenu appears with.. SPELLING!!! It uses the Finder-built-in spell checker. This is something that Apple seems to have built into all it's Apple apps. Sadly it doesn't work in IE, but that's the only other browser I've tried it in. Great functionality though.. incredibly helpful to people who cannot spell worth a damn (like meee!!).

Yeah I have seen not tried that feature in SAfari
 

Yeah I have seen not tried that feature in Safari..........

**** Unfortunately Spend vast majority of time in front of PCEEE:)

NNnnnnnNNNnnnnNnNNnnnnooooOOOOooOOoOOoo!!!!
< cringe >

Create a directory on your Desktop, call it Eudora.orig or something. Move all your Inbox mail to a new mailbox called InboxOld, do the same for your Outbox to OutboxOld, and the same for your Trash (just in case, you never know). (This way, if it works, you won't loose anything from your old settings and it'll be much easier to put your old mailboxes in your new config & transfer the Inbox mail back to your new Inbox). Quit Eudora. Things may vary a bit on how/what your naming scheme is & which version you're up to. But this is where to look and what to look for. Move the following into the Eudora.orig folder:

Shutdown. Wait a moment. Boot. Login. Install Eudora. Config it. Check mail. Send yourself some test mails. Check mail. Check with Mail.app. Are they deleted? Hopefully.. if not, I'm sorry I just made you go thruu this whole rigamorole (yet again) for no reason. If it does work, onto the replacement of stuff from your original (mailboxes, etc).

[official seal of crossed fingers]

[edit: missed one of the .plists/added Trash to list of things to back up to another mailbox]

yellow-

FYI, Eudora settings are NOT stored in the plist files.

User settings are not stored in the .plist, Eudora settings are stored there. Either way, we're starting BG off with a clean slate (as clean as we can get it).

yellow-

Again, you are incorrect.

Eudora's plist files are stored in the user's directory, thus they are user-specific.

So why would you even bother to notify me that "FYI, Eudora settings are NOT stored in the plist files." Was there a point to that? Eudora setting do happen to be stored there.. Like where Eudora can find it's default attachments folder, and where the default location of the application folder lives. Plus a buncha hexadecimal info that I don't care to read or interpret. Whatever, it's all semantics. The .plists need to be moved also, no matter what their content or where or user-specific or not.

Either way, we're starting BG off with a clean slate (as clean as we can get it).

yellow- again, sorry I don't have time to explain every thing to you. Some things you will just have to work on and learn on your own time.



yellow- again, your idea is invalid and not useful.

Earlier in this thread you demonstrated you did not even know how to use Eudora.

Why do you insist on invalid suggestions, repeatedly, which only serve to test your bogus theories and waste everyone's time?



Reportedly, bengreens performed a good clean re-installation of Eudora already. Both with his original OS X user account, and then in the new OS X user account.

Since Eudora installation in the new OS X user account "works", my previous suggestion is the best solution to reviving correct Eudora behavior in his original OS X account.

[roll eyes] You are so insufferably smug. [/roll eyes]

BG, just do what you want and good luck. Hope your Eudora problems get ironed out under the useful tutelage of the great and knowledgeable Icculus (who wrote the Helping Phriendly Book, dontcha know?).

a friendly reminder..
 

hello. This is the moderator-bot Lerkfish...
click...whirr....sproing!

It behooves this moderator-bot to sometimes remind carbon-based lifeforms that it is better to be friendly than to be correct. click whirr.....sproing!

so...consider this a friendly reminder to be....friendly.

22559494..a.a.dkka

kernal panic!!! warning will robinson!! danger!! danger!!!

bingo!

remember, it only takes one bad apple...

the very short peaved song
 

how do you change signal to noise? peaved! peaved!

We have probably Scared away our faithful reader away
 

RE: We have probably Scared away our faithful reader away

I have a question and a thought On B. Machine which should have 2 of everything related to 6.x. now that he has one user where it works and his original user where it does not.

We basically have a choice of moving all these files and or deleting though this risks lost mail/address book (deleting).

On the flip side we could probably copy the Good files to the appropriate user locations. If the example below is still the complete list for (Primary user).

**** There should be a duplicate list for the other user.

NO Matter what Stronly reccomend making a Back up copy of anything B. cares about. If there is no mail or addresses cared about easier to shovel everything
eudora realted into the trash.

B. May have to rely on Find to drill down to these locations as it is easy to get disoriented.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~/Library/Preferences/com.qualcomm.eudora.plist
~/Library/Preferences/Eudora 6.0 b26 OSX .plist
~/Library/Preferences/Eudora 5.2.1 OSX.plist
(basically any .plist with Eudora in it)
~/Documents/Eudora Folder/
/Applications/Eudora Application Folder/
/Library/Scripts/Mail Scripts/Helper Scripts/Eudora.scpt
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: We have probably Scared away our faithful reader away
 

Thanks for reminding me anthlover. Edit on earlier list.

Pleasure
 

RE: Pleasure

So is that list above all of Eudora stuff or did you *** find anymore Eudora stuff to Assasinate....

I am getting closer (sp) :)
---------------------
On A Side Note:)

Course an even bigger problem then spelling is that many words remain in my mind that do not make it to the page and when I read the sentences back my mind puts them back.

It often takes a day/s when re-reading a thread for me notice that I have dropped words.

And Of course if I am at work doing 200 things at once it get worse:)

Later.

I realized that I'd forgotten to suggest a move of the Trash mailbox to a new mailbox in my earlier post, just in case there's something in there that BG wants/needs.

the very latest
 

Hi All,

So I repaired Permissions, ran the fsck, no dice with either one. Then moved all the files Anth listed to the new directory on desktop as suggested, shut down, booted, installed a fresh copy of Eudora. Still have the same problem.

To top it off, somewhere along the way, the new personality I created started having the same problem as the old. (BTW, I didn't give the new one Admin status).

I'm going out of town til next Thursday, but think my next step may be to create yet another personality, and if Eudora functions properly under it, move the settings into my original user folder as Peaved suggested.


till next week,

BG

List is Yellow's I have not used any version of Eudora for 7 years
 

List is Yellow's I have not used any version of Eudora for 7 years.........

I reposted list as a way of asking if the list was complete.

Sorry the working account stopped functioning.
****New Accounts you create should have Admin, makes life simpler for you/us/testing.

I saw that Peaved also mentioned copying "good" files to bad account. Course untill you create another "working" account there is nothing to move.

*** If Peaved would post his complete list to be moved or deleted/renamed etc. it certainly could not hurt.

*** Anybody have a top list for what happened to good account??

****************I'll Start, and I am just wild Ass guessin...

1) Virus
2) Eudora does not like B. (Kidding:)
3) Limited permisions interphering with proper operations
4) Multiple Mail Applications open on same/different computer for same Earthlink account open at the same time?? Perhaps this confuses Earthlink server or settings.
5) B. You should Delete broken new user. Assuming you have no files you need from its enviroment.
6) We need to give you a good ls command with Eudora in it so we can "See"
what your moving, deleting etc. with your dir structure

My wife swears this #4 happens with her mail "always thought Nah"

In any case could not hurt to be through in only having one mail client open at a time.

Tune in same Bat Channel same Bat time for the Exciting Conclusion...

Have a great vacation away from the foolishness of ignored POP3 DELs!