Building a Mac
 

I have become jelous of the way me and my friend were able to build a PC with Windows. I was wondering, is it possible to build a Mac?
I want it down to bones.....

I want to be able to put my own case on with all the fast ****. Then i want to overclock it...is this possible. Where can i get the motherboard? and all the stuff i need? Will it be very very expensive? Reply asap...

Overclocking yes.. parts to build your own? Probably scavenging out of FUBAR'd machines. Apple doesn't license the specs for their hardware, so there's no (legal) 3rd party manufacturers. Of course.. that doesn't mean there's none out there..

www.2khappyware.com - check it out. $379 gets a GigE MB in a case with a compliant power supply - great case, convenient FW and USB hookups, too. Easy! And they also sell more-complete kits with CPUs, HDDs, video, etc.

Yabbut.. a corekit + dual procs will run ya $1300..

Cheap compared to a new Mac, if you do a bit of shopping around for parts.

$379 for the core, $250 for a G4/800+2MBL2, and then add some RAM, a video card, and a hard drive/CDROM (many people have that stuff lying around or can get it very cheap) and away you go.

A GF4MX is $75. A 120GB HDD is $75-100. 512M RAM is $40. A CDRW is $10-15.

It's cheap, easy, and simple to upgrade later when CPU prices drop.

Hmm pretty interesting. Not sure I'd want that for a production model. But that'd be nice for a rough & tumble box.

It's just a GigE Mac in a third-party case; no magic about it, nothing special about it...

I wonder where they are getting the parts for those systems linked above. You can build your own mac on apples website (BTO). I remember back some years ago you could build a mac clone. Infact I have one in my shop right now. Apple stopped doing that due to loss of revenue, and quality control (what they claim).

Maybe we are looking at this the wrong way. I would like to buy a cheap macintosh, or better yet build a cheap one. Has anyone ever thought of putting the mac OS on a pc? Mac's and PCs are very similar hardware wise nowadays. They also have some differences. Apples have roms and open firmware, PCs have a BIOS. I am sure there is some way that OS X could probably run on a PC. You can build a dual proc PC for cheaper than a dual proc apple. I like both apple and PCs, however I like the price of PCs better. Just a few thoughts of mine, would be cool if you could load os X on a PC.

Argh! I haaaate PowerComputing Clones! ARRRGH! Everyone one we bought was nothing but trouble. I've finally managed to get everyone thrown on the scrap heap.

(good album)

I think there are fundumental differences in the way Intel and Motorola CPUs speak. Don't know if OS X wouldn't have to be re-written from the ground up to talk to a Wintel chipset.

Well both motorola and intel chips are based off ibm technology, so i don't think it would be too crazy to think its possible.

Yeah the clones did kinda suck. I got one back here that was donated to us (someone left it here, like an abandoned child) and I really don't like to throw away a working system. This one actually works, well kinda....

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No Control
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-a good album

OS X presently will not run on anything but Apple PPC hardware.

Darwin, the core Unix layer in OS X (minus Aqua and a bunch of other things) will run flawlessly on Intel hardware. You need a specific hardware group (chipset, Intel NIC, etc.) but it will work - you'll essentially get Just Another Linux Clone - you can easily download and compile Gnome and KDE GUI front ends, and you can easily download and compile any Unix applications you want.

Mac OS X applications will not work. Applications in source code format that use Aqua cannot be recompiled to work with Darwin/Intel. It's just another Unix clone without Aqua and other Apple PPC-only stuff.

on the mac linked above, the guy just got a bunch of gigerbit Ethernet motherbords that were sold off (there was a reason, look on wired for more info) i would love to get one of these.

darwin on ppc or inten is the new "Geek" toy, for some reason they love it.there is take around the fire (as usual BS goes) that apple have a working copy of mac os x under untel hardware. even if this was true most things would need to be recomplied to work. or something like that. Personally i would hate apple to move away from risc, i mean it would be ok to see os x on a itanium2 but on a x386 chip? the only the the x386 had going for it is raw power and fromwhat i can tell it can only go so far

How do you go about Overclocking the computer in OS X, or does it have to be in the core? Explain...:confused:

They're widely available on ebay for $150-$200.

Very true. All applications would need to be recompiled to
work, and some companies would do that, and some would not.

The Intel chipset is the future - the world depends on Intel, and I'd love to be able to run MacOS on commodity hardware, or at least Apple-ROM'd Intel-supporting motherboards.

To overclock you've got to modify the chips themselves - see xlr8yourmac.com for more information. OS X can modify a few iBooks via software, but that's about it. The rest must be done via hardware - modifying chips and the like.

In some cases there are ways around that, but for the most part, especially on a G4 that you'd put in a core, you need to directly modify the hardware. For example, there's information on XLR8YOURMAC.com that shows how to turn a DP500 into a DP550 in about 5 minutes.

ok, i have a g3 300 desktop running os x, to over clock it all i hgave to do it change the jumper settings, should i do it? i hadn't but my warranty is dead now so i think i might.

Any tips?

If it's a G3/300 B&W, you can easily do it; my B&W G3 went from 350 to 450 and it took all of 5 minutes.

Read xlr8yourmac.com for more info.

If it's a beige G3, don't bother - drop a G4/900 in there. Soon you should be able to find one for $300 or so.

I didint find on that website on how to overclock the computer as far as directions or steps. I see nothing but reviews....

I found it pretty quickly on there.. is this what you were looking for?

http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/systems.html

have a look in there, click on the computer u have and look for the page that talks about overclocking, there is one for every system.

it is a beige tht i'm going to over clock, i want to drop a new zif in and i am keeping ym eyes open (i work for a repair center for apple computers so i should see one) but i want to drop something bigger in my g4 400 first

mayby a new video card as well, mmmmmm

jameso

I don't know about you guys, but I would love to go into a computer shop build a cheaper system (like the 500 to 700 range) and be able to install the mac os and mac applications. Intel is going to make better chips than the motorola's it looks like as well. I am curious to see how this goes.

To continue the discussion of running OSX on other architectures, firstly the kernel has already been ported to the Intel architecture, just like foo said. And I am sure the kernel can be ported to other platforms if wanted. Now what most people call OSX is a little application in CoreServices called "windowserver". This is what is usually called in X, a window manager. OSX is just like KDE or Gnome, a desktop environment. As a note if you want to kill the WM, just send a KILL signal to the windowserver process. Also, porting windowserver to another platform is as easy as counting bananas all day long. "windowserver" need not run under X-windows, but simply access firm-ware level calls to the video-card in order to display graphics. The only problem of course is porting the actual firmware calls to the BIOS based calls. Ok, so it's not as easy as counting bananas but if one has the code one has an awesome advantage. In my opinion, I think Apple has already ported the windowserver program to the Intel architecture.
AtomicTuesday

Thats what the rumor mill thinks, the problem i see is that apple has to be able to control what hardware we can run os x on, if apple sold os x for windows based hardware they don't have the income from every machine running os x, and apple are first and foremost a hardware ware supplier. I could see maybe the ititanium2 hardware being used.

who knows, well besides apples of course.

All IMHO

What Accura said.. 75% of Apple income is from hardware.

Apple can get around that by only supporting Apple-ROM'd Intel motherboards or Apple BIOS-blessed Intel motherboards...

Getting a little off topic here, foo, what does blessing a ROM mean? I have seen this word used various times before but had never really known what it is.
AtomicTuesday

To make a system folder bootable you have to 'bless' it. check out these kbase articles:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106678

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=18611

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106426

Its apple terminology.

They could do that with any other 3rd party motherboard/processor, and get royalties for it. Infact they could do that with all hardware and get royalties for it. There is money to be made with having other companies developed hardware for you. I like apple computers a lot, but I cannot say they are far greater than PC's. I work with both, and I like both. I just wish I could throw the mac OS on my PC, just to see how it would run.

I wrote about Apple only supporting Apple-blessed ROMs. In other words, Apple could buy mass quantities of, say, Asus or Gigabyte Intel x86 motherboards, and then they could work with AMI (American Megatrends Inc - a big BIOS maker) to take the normal AMI-BIOS (that all PCs have) and tweak it a little bit - maybe put ( <C> Apple Computers ) in there somewhere, and then in the Intel OS X software, the kernel could require that textstring to exist prior to booting OS X. I'm sure you could do a better job of protecting the ROM than that, but that's a simple way to illustrate the point.

Bingo - OS X won't work with any motherboards except those Asus or GB boards with Apple's ROM on it.

Apple could do the same thing with any hardware you can name - they used to do it long ago with hard disks, and they do it now (but not deliberately) with video cards, IDE PCI cards, and other add-in cards. (They all require a ROM, but that's just because they're PPC and not x86)

All of these things (motherboards, video cards, PCI IDE cards, etc) could easily be called "Apple Certified" only if they have an Apple ROM on them. It wouldn't be that hard. Then - bingo - you've got Apple "certified" products, and if someone doesn't use Apple certified products and they don't work, well... that's too bad!

That wasn't what I meant. Please see my post on the matter to see what I meant. ROMs are different from System Folders.

apple only ROMS? yeah valid point, but then again it was a valid point on the xbox as well, it didn't take too long to get linux booted, after that it was just another linux build. if mac os x ran on intel i would not doubt for 2 mins that apple would require a apple bios, but i do doubt that it will still require an apple blessed bios 6 months later, after the real world has had a shot at it. Apple would have to spend heaps of time on stopping this stuff, that requires money. who knows tho.

again all of this is IMHO.

jameso

Not the same at all. The XBOX only boots Linux with a modchip (or a complicated swap-trick); the modchip is, for the most part, illegal, and wouldn't be used by the vast majority. Anyway, as I said, that's just one idea - there could be others, including actual hardware on the motherboard tha would prevent easy duplication.

Microsoft XBOX applications still require the XBOX SDK compiler to work on a non-modded XBOX, even almost 2 years after its' release; it also won't run copied DVDs without the modchip. It's stopped the vast majority of XBOX buyers from copying DVDs and from running non-approved titles; I'd say it's worked.

http://www.xboxhacker.net/forums/ind...T&f=12&t=10520

they have stuff running on an unmodded xbox, its not finished but its getting there, it only took 2 years with the limited amount of people who have the skills and the xbox. Think of how many windows users would love to run mac os x on there home computer, and the linux geeks would love to have a shot at it. a lot of them would want to do it for free (the world is not a prfect place) so they would pool there minds and solve the problem, asap. it's what the internet is for.

u can get an solderless modchip for $60 AU or $30 US so its not like u have to break the bank.

jameso

I thought the internet was for p0rn? :D

that and theft

You still need the swap-trick AND a memory card AND it just exploits a bug in the game; I don't think it's viable or an example of anything in particular other than that the 007 authors screwed up. It's -very- tedious and very unlikely to appeal to any but hard-core hackers.

A few would, and they'd be able to do so if they bought OS X. Not the end of the world. They'd also realize they were hacking the system, and they'd realize it's unsupported.


I don't think it's -nearly- as easy as you're suggesting. That said, though, even if it is as 'easy' as the 007 swap trick, it's still far too complicated for the vast, vast majority of people - and that's all that Apple really needs to worry about.

That's never been the issue.

Teehee! xSux? Talk about hijacked threads?!

my bad, sorry =)

Well, there are ways around all of this. Not matter what you create their will be piracy. Apple could sell their OS to PC users to make tons of money. Lets say you download windows xp coporate edition, the one you never have to activate. well none of the service packs runs on those. So if you have a pirated version you can't install any service packs or vital updates. which means no usb2 support since it comes in SP1. Ever notice how the OS disk that comes with your mac only works on that exactly model of mac's. I had an imac in my shop about 2 months ago that had no software with it at all. I had to reinstall os 10.2, so i was using a retail box version. The imac would not boot off the cds at all, but would mount them in the OS. After tons of troubleshooting and phone calls with apple; apple told me that retail box versions of the OS will not work on that model imac, only the OS CD's it came with will. There was nothing I could have done to fix this, I had to track down the exact restore CD. its not like apple cannot develope any kind of copyright protection for their software/hardware.

Even if there was tons of piracy just think of the revenue increase of Mac OS being sold w/ PCs and PC users buying it to run on their intel or amd based system. You cannot escape piracy at all, but you can gain profit when you increase your customer base on the market.

See I think if Apple made their OS for PCs, then they'd pretty much go under. They are and always have been primarily a hardware company. That's where nearly 75% of their revenue comes from.. if they license their OS for a PC, who's going to buy their expensive hardware? Not many. Most people will go to their local computer store and buy all the crappy pieces/parts needed to build their own machine. Suddenly Apple's only making 10-30% of their revenue? *flush*

That's not correct. Service packs work flawlessly on Corporate Edition XP Pro.

Err...no, there are no issues with installing service packs on legal copies of XP Pro Corporate Edition. You can also pirate the Corporate Edition and download service packs, too. MS invalidated a few KEYS - maybe that's what you mean.

The Mac bit is correct. Apple does that to try to limit piracy.

That's misleading. The Retail OS X will boot that Mac, if you use a Retail OS X version that was released AFTER that iMac was created. For example, Retail OS X 10.2 will boot the first and second gen iMac, but not the newest 17" 1Ghz iMac, because the 17" 1Ghz iMac was released after OS X 10.2 was released.

Yes - and they're doing it exactly as we're discussing - the "BIOS" and machine ID on those newer Macs is just a little bit different, so OS X won't install on them without it being a known machineID. :)

Of course. But the idea here is to strictly limit what Apple does and does not support - and one suggestion to do that was to limit the machines Apple would support by a BIOS-change method.

Right ... which is why we're having this discussion of how Apple could *lock* their OS so it would only work on Asus and Gigabye motherboards with an Apple ROM on it. That would stop people from being able to use MacOS with a generic PC and would force people to buy the PC from Apple if they want to run MacOS.

Nope the retail box version did NOT boot that 17in flat panel imac. it would mount in the OS but not boot off the retail box version. This is because the new 17" come with a DVD instead of 2 CDs. It did not work, and apple told me it wouldn't. Apple may have fixed that now, but the very first imacs that came with the dvd of OS X will not boot retail box versions of os 10.2.

Also, no you cannot update a hacked version of xp corp. you have to download and install a hacked update of SP1. So you have to run a hacked update on a hacked OS, so you may run into tons of problems.

As far as apple hardware, if apple made their prices reasonable, people would buy them. One great example is the pioneer 105 drive that apple puts in all their G4 desktops cost $950.00, and its a pioneer 105 drive. Also they don't make their hardware they just design it. Open up a CRT iMac and what do you find printed on the circuit boards....LG. Apple could do the same with intel based hardware. Anything that wanted to support the Mac OS would have to pay apple a royality for using their technology. go out and purchase 2 P4 procs, and its way cheaper than a dual G4 processor board. So, if apple does rely on hardware sales and goes into the market of PC's and the whole build your own thing, they would lose ton of money; unless they were to make their parts have cheaper sale prices. Apple hardware is not the absolute greatest hardware on the planet, so people would cut corners buy cheaper hardware and run the mac os on it. So, apple will probably never ever release the OS to be put on a PC. I don't blame them, however I would love to see how it would run on my Plll at home compared to my ibook (p3 800mhz vs an ibook 700mhz both have 512mb of ram).

Again apple is rumored to be buying a record label, a major one. 2 years ago they bought out emagic (for those of you who don't know what that is - its digital recording software, professional level stuff http://www.emagic.de ) so it looks like they are wanting to get into the music business. So if they make tons of money off that who knows what they will do with their computer systems. Also that online music store they have sold what was it, 600,000 songs opening weekend? not bad eh?

Err...yeah, that's what I said. The reason for that is because the 17" iMac was released after 10.2.

I think you're a bit confused. The only problem people have had with SP1 is with a particular string of keys that was widely distributed in the beginning of the XP release; Microsoft cracked down and dropped support of those keys. The SP1 update knows about those keys and refused to install on those keys. Services packs in general, though, install perfectly on a purchased copy of XP Corporate - or a copy with the right keys.

I wish Apple would release a G4/1.42x2 Cube for $1000 too; I doubt it's going to happen though.

Well, yes, that's what we've been talking about - ways for Apple to sell fairly generic motherboards and force people to buy from them if they want to run OS X. So far we've talked about forcing a BIOS check in the operating system; that would stop people from buying any old x86 PC and running OS X on it.


It's made a few million. In the grand scheme of things it's very little, but it's sustainable over the long haul and doesn't depend on Apple constantly selling new hardware (and eventually it can be sold to PC users too); these are major advantages compared to trying to sell to the ever-shrinking Mac market.

what about a pci card? that would be better than an apple bios coz u could just take it home and wack it in your machine, and pcmcia for laptops, a dongle for your OS, man isn't life getting interesting

[ --- spelling correction -- ]

Well some company did that for apple you could actually buy a pci card that made your mac into a pc. It had a MB, proc, ram on it. It was a way of running around virtual PC. As I remember the card was 700 retail which you can build a PC for that much, so it was kinda lame.

yeah, i was thinking just sort of a dongle like with most high end apps, even usb would do

But Apple wants to sell you the entire machine so they can guarantee compatibility and rake in all the profits - hence they'd want to sell you an Intel *box*, not a PCI card.

That would lower profit for Apple, and it wouldn't allow them to provide all the features of the box (graphics, HDD, sound, etc.) so they couldn't "guarantee" compatibility.

Long ago I had a Centris 610 with the Apple DOS compatibility card inside of it. I think I paid around $250 or so for it, and it was a 486/25 or so with sound and video. It was a hack, but it worked pretty well, and allowed one to play PC games of the era.

I can't remember what model of one we had, but in our denver branch we had one in our G3. When I was working in denver I used it to run virtual PC. One of the techs I worked with got a good deal on it. It was an AMD 500Mhz/128mbRAM/voodo video(i think, it may have been ATI)/and some sound card. It was originally retailing at $ 600 - 700, my co-worker got it for like $400 somehow. I hardly worked with it, cuz i hated (and still do) virtual PC.

I just think it would be funny if you could install OS X on a PC, and XP on a mac and see how they run.