Macbook clicking, won't boot
 

I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume my recent thread is of relevance:

http://forums.macosxhints.com/showthread.php?t=110094

Holding shift won't boot it into safe mode, it just keeps up with the blank gray screen. A dark gray folder with a question mark appears intermittently.

Can anything be done? I can't afford a new computer (of any sort, not just a mac), and while I have an OLPC XO that I received as a gift (boasting 433Mhz clock speed, 256MB of RAM, and roughly 500MB of free space), there is no wireless in the dorm, and it doesn't have an ethernet jack. I guess I'll be ordering an adapter as soon as possible, but for now I'm stuck posting from the public computer lab and have no way to access my backed up files.

Is it dead? Can anything be done? It's a Macbook 1,1, so it's definitely not under warranty. SMARTReporter never gave me a heads up, and when I ran Verify Disk last night it came up as OK... I mean, I know this isn't exactly out of the blue, but geez...

Yeah, sorry. It sounds like your HDD went out.

Its a good thing you have that backup!

(Even though you can't access it right now, at least your files still exist.)

Yeah. I only have one backup copy, though, so now I'm terrified something will happen to it. I guess it's just paranoid, but... I dunno. Somewhat ironically, I recently ordered another flash drive for backup, but it didn't arrive in time.

And is it really dead, then? I've been looking around and some people elsewhere who had this problem were being suggested things besides "enjoy your paperweight". Not seeing much evidence of success on their parts, admittedly...

Yeah thats really all you can do. Without spending money for Apple to replace your HD, your Macbook is now useless.
I don't suppose that backup is bootable? In the future, I would recommend using SuperDuper! Instead of TM. That way, even if your HD dies, you can still boot off your external backup.

Ugh, wow.

And no, the backup is just a bunch of folders contained within a TrueCrypt file on my iPod. The XO is running Ubuntu and refuses to mount the iPod, or I could copy the files into a waiting empty TrueCrypt file I had prepared for backup on its SD expansion card.

By TM do you mean Time Machine? It had seemed to me as though that was for people with the storage capacity to keep multiple past states backed up, whereas I only have room for one backup of choice files, so I actually just do everything manually, usually once a week. My current backup is more outdated than it ought to be, though, because I was afraid I'd end up overwriting intact files with the rapidly appearing corrupted ones...

Huh,
Not sure which Macbook you have but I would have thought you could replace the HD yourself. There are plenty of sites that show you how for most Macs.

I think the clicking is where the HD controller card is failing. (Its part of the HD, not the Mac)
Which controls the reading and writing.

Also I have had a G5 HD do the clicking and die. I managed to run Disk Warrior on it with the G5 in target Disk mode.

I had realised, it was reading a very very very tiny bit of data a second.
on each click. To little for a boot up, But not for DW to persevere with. (Go DW)

After about a lifetime (well at least a couple of days) it told me it could not write the new image it made from the data it found (I.e rebuild the system and my files) because the the HD was too screwed (slow write response), but I could compare its new image of the data to the old one if I wanted?.

Eh Yer..

This allowed me to copy off files to an external drive.
(remember I was running this from another Mac, with the G5 mounted in Target Disk Mode)
I then replace the HD with a new one (and Bigger) and put my files back.

It may be cheaper to buy a new HD than to buy DW($99.95). HD's are quite cheap now days. So if you already have you data, you may want to look into replacing the HD yourself.

Note for future reference that iPods are built for smallness, not for long-term reliability (the music data on an iPod is assumed to be merely a portable copy of songs that you have on your Mac).
So I would not recommend relying on an iPod for backup of important data.
Not to mention of course that iPods are usually travelling with you and hence are much more prone to being lost or stolen.

Yes, flash memory has no moving parts and so is not prone to fail in the same way as a conventional hard disk, but it still can fail.
I think I still would prefer a conventional hard disk for long-term backup until flash drives have proven their reliability. I'm talking about the larger flash drives which are currently much more expensive than conventional hard drives. Flash memory sticks are built for smallness and cheapness and not recommended for long-term storage.

Huh? That's not true at all. Any other computer professional, or Freon if he or she is somewhat competent with electronics, can easily replace a hard drive. A dead hard drive is not at all a death sentence for a computer. It's just a replaceable item. When your brake pads wear out on your car, do you say that you either spend money with the car's manufacturer, or else the car is useless? No, of course you just have new brake pads installed by any regular mechanic, or do it yourself.

Trevor

That's a good idea, but would investing in a new HD for such an old machine be wise? Surely something else about it must be failing... I mean, aside from the fact that the keys stick so badly I can barely type. Considering that it's a Macbook 1,1, how likely is it that the failure was the result of multiple factors working together?

And yeah, I couldn't afford DW, but today I remembered some files I definitely didn't back up within the past half year, so it would really come in handy. If I were to just ask around until I found a friend of a friend who had a copy, could something be worked out? Guess I'd also need another mac, but that would be easier to come by. I assume there's no chance their machine could be damaged in the process?

Yeah, I know. The idea with the iPod was actually that I would likely have it with me at all times - no use having backup if it's right next to the computer when the building burns down.

The flash drive I've ordered is a 16gb Corsair Survivor. Would it be less failure prone due to having been designed for backup? I also have space on my XO's SD card set aside. How are those for reliability?

I guess once I get my data in all three places it won't really matter how reliable they each are. Doubt they'd all fail simultaneously, at the very least.

EDIT: Speaking of iPods, is there a way to get my songs off of it? I once used an app called Senuti for this purpose, but it corrupted some of the files and left everything without ID3 tags or proper filenames.

Thanks, that's good to know. As I said, though, I fear it might be like putting new brake pads on a rusted out old junker. What do you all think? I'd be shocked if it hadn't suffered extreme heat damage over the years, at the very least.

Thats why I said "without spending money."
Of course Apple isn't the only option. I just meant money will be involved with the repair.
The computer is unusable until it is repaired.

Probability of a disk drive failing within a 10 year period: almost 100%
Probability of an iPod being lost or stolen within a 10 year period: more than 10%
Probability of a building burning down within a 10 year period: less than 0.1 %
Hence your first backup should be one that uses reliable media and stays in your house. Your second backup should be in some other location.
(above statistics made up but you get the point)

That USB flash drive is designed to survive *physical* problems like being squished or dropped into water. It doesn't address the issue of electronic reliability at all.
Think of it this way: some/most of the money you are spending on that flash drive is going to the physical shell. So less of the money is going towards electronic reliability.

Probably about the same as for flash drives.

Final point:
Don't neglect the option of using the many (often free) network-based backup solutions like "DropBox".

Thats not really a question any of us can really answer IMHO.
We can not tell you it will or will not be worth it, sorry..
I wish we could. But it depends on to many things.

We can only speculate, the same as you. The expected life time and actual life time of a machine depends on too many things.

The issues with the keys are, when you come down to it, subjective.
Can you live with it?.

Remember my G5 is older. I only replaced the HD about 2 months ago. It was worth it to me as it does not exhibit any other hardware issues and still suited my needs for it.
I could afford the new HD without breaking the bank, and if the G5 proves to have more issues, then it was worth the risk.

£79 for the HD compared to possibly 10x that for a new Mac if it does fail for other reasons.
2 months ago I could not afford to do that. 2 months later I still could not. But I have the use of my G5.
I can alway put the New HD in a external enclosure for a further sub £30.
At worse, I will still have to replace the G5.

So at the end of the day it really depends on what you think the risks are against costs, time, and expectations, and current usage, in going down the route of buying a new HD. And will it work even if you do?

How tough a call that really is, is subjective to you. ;)

Hmm, yeah, I suspected as much. Having looked around at higher end backup devices simply out of curiosity, it became obvious that reliability is VERY hard to come by. It thus seemed like a good enough idea to simply have several copies of my files floating around (four, if a working computer were to be included). It's unfortunate that I didn't have the chance to set this safety net up before my HD failed, but I suspect it will serve me well enough in the future. Thanks for the input, either way.

It's also worth noting that although fire/natural disaster/etc isn't likely to happen to everyone within their lifetimes, it does happen often enough that it would certainly be worth the effort to have a digital archive of important documents prepared, at the least. People displaced by disasters, for example, often find themselves unable to apply for jobs in their new cities of residence simply because they don't have the needed identification/paperwork/etc available. Not likely to apply to me at this point in my life, mind, but still something to remember.

I never really considered online storage, though, to be honest, out of both security concerns and the belief that it would cost a monthly fee I simply couldn't afford. If there are indeed free ones, however, I suppose a TrueCrypt file would be secure enough. I'll look into it.

That's true, I admit, but I do appreciate your input. It's heartening to hear that a computer older than mine is still usable, although I'm not entirely confident in my abilities to install a new HD, never having done it before. I think I'll read up, though, as well as start saving for a replacement HD. After all, I don't really have much of a choice. I'd just be happy to have it functioning again, sticky/missing keys and all.

Does anyone have experience replacing a MacBook HD? I'd think it would be considerably harder than a desktop. Not that I wouldn't give it a shot anyway, but you know.

Well, I don't agree that a MacBook is a junker, for one. I'm typing this on my Power Mac G5, which is still an excellent computer. My brother still has a Macintosh Color Classic in his kitchen with a recipe database on it. And that's a computer from 1992, eighteen years ago. Running strong. Why is a MacBook, which has an Intel processor and can run Snow Leopard, considered a junker?

Second, a new hard drive is cheap, and relatively easy to install yourself. Search for MacBook take-apart guide and look at one of the many explanations, or just go straight to iFixit and find the detailed guide for your specific MacBook.

Trevor

Wow, that's pretty awesome. I've always hoped to be able to keep my old computers around for things like that in the future.

This is my first mac, though, and all of my previous computers have just straight up died. I guess I'm just not accustomed to the concept of the situation being salvageable when something major happens.

Is it a bit ironic that aside from the OS, the main reason I decided to get a mac was for the quality and longevity? Yeah, it's only given me one kernel panic in the years I've had it, and it appears as though it'll run fine if I can install a new HD, but it just strikes me as kind of funny, considering...

Whoa, that is cheap! Thanks for the links. HDs aren't like RAM in that only certain kinds are compatible with a given machine, right? Can I just go for the cheapest one, or is there a best choice?

It needs to be a 2.5" drive in a notebook computer like your MacBook. And it needs to use the SATA interface, not the ATA interface. The drives at the link I gave you are 2.5" SATA drives.

The only other thing to watch out for is that it is a 9.5 mm tall drive. There are a very few 2.5" drives that are 12 mm tall, probably 2% or so of 2.5" drives. The vast majority (approximately 98%) are 9.5 mm tall, so will work fine.

There's no brand limitations--any will work.

As far as the 'best' choice, yes, some drives are better than others, in many different ways. Everybody has their own opinions on what constitutes best, though. YMMV.

Trevor

Great, thank you very much!

Am I missing something here, though, or does it not specify the height? Is that only included for the 12mm exceptions?

The drive you linked to is a 9.5mm tall drive. You can see that from the product page, but not easily. To find the height from that page, click the "Manufacturer Info" tab in the left column, below "Special Offers". Under that tab, click "Manufacturer Product Page". That will open a new window or tab of the product on Western Digital's website. Now click the "Specifications" tab. Look under "Physical Dimensions", and you'll see that it's 9.5 mm tall.

Trevor

Ohh, thank you. I don't know why I assumed all the pertinent information would be somewhere on the vendor page.

Anyway, thanks to everyone for all the help! Looks like I'll be trying my hand at installing a new HD. Maybe if I'm lucky I won't even need to make another thread about how I screwed it up.