For those who have the Christmas blues - it could be worse...
 

http://www.stmatthews.org.nz/images/...llboard-09.jpg

that was put up as a billboard by a church (god bless the Anglicans). story here.

Guess everyone is afraid to touch this one. So, I'll comment.

TW, I want to wish you and yours a very Merry Christmas and a Happy and prosperous new year. (Or winter festival, etc.)

Somehow, the thought had never ever occurred to me... I remember my parents always explained Jesus conception as some sort of magic (more or less), with spirits descending upon beings etc etc. Not all that crazy from a theological perspective...but I do sometimes wonder if that's how it happened, or if it's this... Oh well, in the grand scheme of things I'm not sure it matters.

What I really want to know is why the Anglican church put this on a bill board! I apparently need to learn more about these folks!

It was done by a New Zealand church. See here: http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...17/2775091.htm

did I tread on sensibilities? my apologies, if so; I'm a bit different with respect to religion, so I can't always tell in advance when people are going to see something as inappropriate. I just thought this was amusing.

Blessings back to you and yours, though. :)

there's a skeptic argument (for what it's worth) that says the entire virgin birth story was an effort to cater to Roman converts, who were accustomed to stories of gods who seduced beautiful women in the form of animals, or showers of golden light, or etc. the council of Nicaea carefully sidestepped anything of that sort, though.

Prelate humor - a bit of a joke to get people focussed ack on the true meaning of christmas.

Sex? Are we celebrating Christmas or Yuletide?

Not my sensibilities, rather I think you are on the edge of a religious discussion which is taboo, I thought, on this forum. The "cartoon" questions a basic tenet of Christianity and pretty much makes fun of it.

I'm not a bit sure this Anglican church's view of the "real" meaning of Christmas would be a consensus view.

Well, they did note in the article that they feel the real thing behind Christmas is love and kindness, and other things Jesus stood for. It's bland enough that I don't think anyone could disagree with it...

I think it's more the method people might be offended by than the actual message. I guess "reason for the season" just wasn't cutting the mustard for them.

odd. me, I just thought it was humorous, and I understood the logic behind it (problem: people focus too much on the miracle and not enough on the message - solution: lampoon the miracle, and refocus on the message). an effective approach for parishioners who are capable of self-reflection (only self-reflective people can handle that kind of irony), though it's likely to miff others in the parish. of course, it doesn't work at all for those outside the parish, since they'll never hear the sermon that refocuses the issue. I assumed people would take it as lightly as I do, but I guess I was wrong. my bad, sorry. :o

TW, you have nothing to apologise for. You were simply relaying the story.

Anglicans, of course, have Mary as an optional extra. There's no insistence on her special place in liturgy and theology, but she's there if you want.

There's a rather unfortunate turn of phrase in many English Bible translations, which used to cause a chuckle in my youth.

"But how shall this be, seeing I know not a man?" The angel answered: "The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee." :p

Though the gospels do mention Jesus as having at least 4 "brothers", so Joseph can't have been all bad....!

Well - I thought it was cute - actually a refreshing bit of humor. Its a take that I haven't seen before. I hope it doesn't get lambasted! And I agree that the true meaning of Christmas has often appeared to have been kidnapped and replaced by a $ for retailers....

How many commercials or ads in the papers do you see proclaiming "X days till the birth of Jesus"? Well, I missed 'em. OK - I'll stop now too easy to get going on this one.

Happy Holidays to all!

You guys are kidding, right? Of course it is offensive to a huge segment of the population, and every one of you know that. Nothing wrong with views that offend others I guess, I just thought that was against the forum rules when it came to religion.

Offending others was the intended purpose of the billboard, right?

(I was not personally offended, as I posted earlier, and am certainly not looking for an apology from anyone.)

I don't think so. Sure, they must have known that some people would be offended, but that's true with any religious statement. Any time you make a point that conflicts with somebody's dogma you risk that.

Exactly so. And that's why the forum rules say:

"Please note this is not a forum for discussions on any of the following topics:
--Religious debate or commentary...... "

We've all been through the college years where the young inquiring minds question everything as they search for their own truth. That is normal and expected and I am not offended by it. I've heard all the jokes surrounding Christmas and even told a few myself. Later in life I have learned to show respect for the views of others, no matter how misguided they may be, and hope they will do the same for me. It is the way civilized people live together.

Some subjects are just best left to a venue dedicated to that discussion. Moderators were wise to include religion as one of those.

I understand the desire to keep a Mac site a "Mac site", but I don't think barring religion or politics is a good way to do that. Political, religious, and IT dogma all affect the Mac platform and ignoring them can only harm it.

For sure the "politics" rule has been pretty much ignored. The IT dogma is overwhelming... and I thought I was the only one who had noticed. In any case, IT dogma is not an issue I would care to take on in this forum.:)

Still, gotta be some rules or we end up just slinging mud at each other. Where's the line? Porn? Racial humor? Guess I could go either way on the religion thing, though I think it wise to just let it be.

And, oh yeah, the ultra liberal dogma is quite noticeable, too.:)

Ha! That would be anything that doesn't toe the ultra "conservative" line.

I think IT dogma is the worst of all dogmas because it reaches farther without being noticed. That being said, I've been acutely aware of (and disgusted by) it since the mid 1980s.

lol - IMO, the definition of 'dogma' is: "Any statement that is taken as common sense by some group whose attitude one dislikes". it's a quality only other people and other groups have because (in the usual construction) they are too ignorant to see the truth the way we do. That will persist until everyone figures out that nobody really has a darned clue about anything. :rolleyes:

but no, I don't think they were trying to offend. I think they were trying to educate, and education is a risky prospect. The first step in educating anyone is making them realize that they don't understand correctly, which is never a pretty prospect.

P.s. as far as IT dogma goes, I do think most of us are tithing members of The Church of the Living Mac (in our creation myth, Billzebub gets Eve to look through some forbidden Windows). that's kind of the nature of the site.

There were no Windows at creation. Eve looked at a command line for a 16-bit (64 KB) OS and declared it superior to a 24/32 bit OS that had a decent gui. We've been banished from Eden ever since. ;)

Well, if we are telling Christmas stories, I have one. The battery charger on the little one's 13" Macbook crashed last Sunday evening and the batteries were dead. Warranty service is unavailable in central Arkansas, so nothing to do but call Apple at 445p on a Sunday night. Got the usual shipping instructions and was told up to one week for delivery.... 3-7 days.

Facing no Facebook for a week, the little one was despondent. The charger arrived at 8:30a the next morning. See... there is a Santa Claus and miracles do happen, even during the busy Christmas shipping season and on a Sunday night.

You really have to factor some value into a Mac with service like that. Yes, they shipped it "overnight priority." Still, 17 hours from phone call to delivery to my front door is pretty darned amazing.

To the image, that's exactly how the person people are celebrating this December was conceived.

I agree with you.

Offence is in the eye of the beholder. I myself am frequently amazed (or perhaps offended?) by what people choose to take offence to.
I don't think any offence is intended by the advert, but I'm sure that someone will take offence.

One of the things I learnt at school was that once I realised people were trying to offend me, just to get a reaction, then it became very easy not to take the bait.
Since then, I've rarely been offended. In fact, I've often laughed when someone comes up with a well-crafted insult towards me.
And when people are offended by something I say (and the chances are that I didn't mean to offend), then I often reply "I'm very sorry that you found it offensive".

The retort "You should get out more", to the statement "I've never been so insulted" is not only funny but wise.

Here's wishing you all a Merry Christmas. (No offence!):D

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That’s a nice story! :)

As a Christian, the billboard certainly didn’t offend my sensibilities. In fact I thought it was a nice take, successful in making people pause and reflect. The message certainly wasn’t one-dimensional.

However, in order to reduce the temptation to slide this discussion into forbidden territory, I’m closing the thread. ;)

Y’all have a Blessed Christmas!

-- ArcticStones
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