CRT's vs. LCD's - Opinions Please
 

In the years that this forum has existed, this topic has undoubtedly been discussed before. However, being as I have never been involved in any of those discussions, and am interested in other Mac users' opinions regarding this issue, I thought I'd post this topic.

We all know that the venerable, old CRT monitor already has at least one foot in the grave, and that within a few years at best, it will probably be impossible to even find them for sale.

I am curious as to what people here think of the demise of the CRT. Are you glad about it? Are you happy to see them go? Or, like me, will you miss them?

For myself, I realize that CRT's are big and bulky, and that they give off a lot of heat, and that they probably use more power than LCD's, but in spite of those drawbacks, I like the color quality, brightness and intensity of CRT's. My daughter has a ViewSonic LCD monitor connected to her 10-year-old G4, and if there is one thing that I don't like about it, it is that you have to be sitting right in front of it in order to see everything clearly and properly. If you are trying to share a video with a family member or friend, and they are sitting off to the side of the LCD monitor, forget it.

What also bugs me about LCD's is their life expectancy compared to CRT's. Our CRT's are finally giving out after ten years, but from what I have heard, even from our local Apple distributor, LCD's have about half that life expectancy, or perhaps five years.

LCD's are also not as rugged as CRT's . . . at least not as far as I can tell.

The reason why this issue is so important to me, is because during the past year or so, I have lost a G3 -- manufactured around 1999 -- as well as a G4 -- manufactured shortly after that around 2,000. I am now working on another 400 Mhz G4, and its 17" Apple Display monitor is also showing signs of kicking the bucket soon . . . probably within months.

In short, I am being forced to buy a new machine -- when I can finally afford it -- and it really irks me that, by all accounts, I should expect this new machine to last about half as long as my G4's. Yes, the new Macs are faster, and considerably more powerful, but to realize that within another five years, I am going to have to make yet another major investment -- and several thousand dollars is a MAJOR investment for someone on a fixed income such as myself -- just really irks me.

So, please share your views. Do you share the same frustrations as I do, or not?

Thanks!

This sounds like you are going to buy a top of the range intel mac pro with a 30inch screen maybe overkill from a G4 !

Do you really need a tower won't a 24inch iMac do ???

LCD is the way forward and now the backlights are LED based they will have a longer life span than previos fluorescent based backlight displays.

really in this day and age 5 years use is good going. Yes the CD/DVD will break...hard disk may fail....but on the whole computers are pretty reliable.

Hello AgentX. Thanks for your comment. As I mentioned in another message thread, I currently have my eyes on a 24" 3.06 GHz iMac. We only have ONE authorized Macintosh distributor here, which means they pretty much have a monopoly on the situation. They want US $2,429.00 for this iMac. For a retired person living on a fixed income -- such as myself -- that is a major investment for something that will be shot in five years or less.

Yes, I realize that LCD's are the wave of the future, but that doesn't mean that I have to like it.

FYI, come next July, I will have been a dedicated Mac user for 20 years. I have invested over $15,000 in our personal Macs during this time, not to mention several thousand dollars in software that I have purchased. I never even touched a computer until middle age.

I don't know how old you are, but even our local Mac tech person agrees that Apple is making Macs of cheaper and cheaper quality with each passing year. They are more fragile, and they don't last as long; and this from a guy who is paid to repair them.

New Macs are just like cars. They used to be well-built, with good quality materials, rugged design, and thick chassis. Now they are light-weight death traps on wheels.

It is all about corporate greed involving the least possible expense while obtaining the most profit.

I have used a Mac SE, Plus, LC III, G3 mini-tower and G4 mini-tower. I know whereof I speak. :)

Well one might say i am mid life (without a crisis)....so nearly 40 !
I have also spent a small fortune on Macs/software over last 20 years, and as a Business user this has always been an expense worth paying. I have procured 100s of Macs for companies too....

I understand what you are saying, we do not know yet how reliable the iMacs will be as they are only a few years old, but i can only say that most of the previous version iMacs that i support around 50 are all in good nick after 4 years service. Some of the DVD drives are a bit temperamental but that is to be expected IMHO.

I do agree that the "consumer" level Macs probably have a higher failure rate than those amazing G4 towers etc. ( i have 2 myself in full service still and have just taken 20 out of service after 10 years).

I wish you all the best with your purchase and maybe report back in 5 years time....with your verdict ;-)

See the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety video pitting a 1959 "thick chassis" Bel Air against a modern car:
http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009...air-literally/

Hayne, are you suggesting that we pit a Mac SE against a 24" iMac? If so, obviously, the SE will win hands down and shatter that poor iMac! :) :)

Kids, do NOT try this at home! Macs are too darn expensive to waste on this kind of foolish testing! ;)

I have the opposite experience. My earlier Macs, going back to the 1990s, all had one problem or another. Once they got fixed under warranty, they were good for the rest of their working lives, but it was always a hassle to have something to fix every time I bought a Mac.

My last couple of Macs, the most recent ones, have had zero problems. In my own experience, which is just as anecdotal as anybody's, Mac quality is better than it's ever been.

As far as how you prefer CRT brightness, I can only assume that you mean LCDs are too bright, because they can reach brightness levels a CRT could never achieve. Today's LED backlights can have MTBF ratings exceeding 70,000 hours. That's not when the monitor dies, that's only when it drops to the level in the spec (I forget if it's 50% original brightness) but still works well. Be glad you skipped all of the CCFL backlight bulbs since they did have problems.

As someone who's also owned older Macs, and cranky ones, I love my most recent, most reliable Macs the most of all.

I remember the powerbooks of the mid 1990s having quality control issues, and most of the Macs in that era had plastic cases. Comparing those to the Macbook Pro I just got, it seems to me that Apple's quality has gotten better.

If money is an issue, consider getting a Mac Mini. It will likely have all the power you need, and you can reuse your current keyboard, mouse, and display.

As for CRTs, I'm glad to see them go. In addition to their high power consumption and difficult to recycle components, I suspect that they were not at all good for the user's health. Get a good LCD display and you shouldn't have problems. Just don't go for the cheapest model and expect a great picture.

I find some of your comments interesting, because they are contrary to what the chief service technician at our local Apple distributor -- who I've known for at least a dozen years -- has been honestly willing to tell me. I was actually rather surprised that he would agree with me, because one would think that as a businessman, he would want to encourage me all he could to buy a new Mac. Of course, he did point out the positive points of the new Macs -- mainly speed and power -- but having worked on so many Macs over the years, he couldn't escape the conclusion that newer Macs aren't made quite as well. He particularly praised the G4 workhorses.

Of course, how long a Mac lasts depends on more than just the quality of the workmanship. There is also the end user, and what their work habits are. Do they smoke? Do they leave the machine on when it doesn't need to be on? Is the machine in a well-ventilated area? Do they keep the fans dust free so that they move properly? Do they keep other inner parts dust free so that they don't trap heat? Are there any furry pets which might ruin a machine? Is monitor brightness kept up to high?

CwtNoSpam, I did consider a Mac Mini, but as I said, this monitor is almost shot; so in the end, I would still end up spending a lot of money.

Right now, the question for me is: Do I continue saving up, take the short cut and buy the 24" iMac sometime next year . . . or do I save even more, for a much longer period of time, and eventually get the Mac Pro, which I know will last longer?

Tough choice.

You see, you folks need to understand the way my brain operates. The way I look at it, whatever I end up buying is going to have to last me for a very long time, because I simply can't afford to keep doing this every five years or so. Macs are just too darn expensive for my pocketbook. They are a nasty expensive habit. :)

To give you an idea of what kind of a person I am, I have clothes in my closet that I bought over 25 years ago that I still wear. I am rather frugal and believe in getting my money's worth out of things.

I've never had a Mac last less than five years unless it got damaged due to human error. It's true that a laptop hard drive is going to take more abuse than a desktop, but if you get an iMac that isn't an issue. Even at five years old you can usually get a decent price for them, so that reduces the cost of a new one. ;)

OSXdude… It appears you and I were built from very similar molds. I've been a Mac owner since 1990, when I finally retired my original Apple ][ (not plus!). My progression from one model to the next usually spanned 3 or 4 generations and other than a Mac IIci and Powerbook Pro (2006), were purchased used.

All of my Macs required service at one time or another and most were done myself. Other than my Mac+, every computer was designed with modular replacements in mind and are very easy to service. If the LCD dies in my 24" iMac, I will either replace the LCD or Power Supply. Either will likely cost me less than $300. I still own every one of my Macs and they still work. Of course, a few are collecting dust.

IMO, Most of my Macs were well designed and reliable. I'm not worried about the LCD since it's so easy to repair. In the next couple of years, were going to see the demise of the LCD as well since OLED (viewable from any angle, no back light) seems to be the next big thing.

The shirt I have on is only 12 years old, but it has had the collar turned, so I know something about frugality.

I've been lucky with my high-tech purchases. I had a OEM DVD drive replaced (twice) under warranty and that is the only thing that has ever broken.

My 10-year-old LaCie 22" CRT monitor was replaced after my son sat down at it and said, "Ooh, fuzzy." I had no idea. I had nothing to compare it to. I replaced it with a Dell 2408WFP TFT monitor. It took a couple days of fiddling with the color to get it the way I liked it (color was way too saturated as delivered) but I'm really happy with it now. Good color, sharp image, lots of extra room on the desk. It was also much cheaper than the Apple alternative, even though it offers extra features, like a card reader.

I've got hundreds of images I've posted online that are over-sharpened because my old CRT softened on me without my noticing.

Other equipment has had to be replace because of obsolescence. I stayed with OS 9 and my beige G3 (upgraded with a G4/500 processor, faster video card, faster ethernet and maximum RAM - a massive 748 Mb!) as long as I could. I still use it, because my SCSI scanner still works fine. So it is networked to my G5 PowerMac for the scanner.

I have a USB floppy drive that was used once, just to see if it worked. I have a Jaz drive and 15 cartridges collecting dust in the garage. A Zip drive and 50 disks doing the same. (That represents a LOT of money.)

I gave an iBook to a relative because it was too slow for work and bought the cheapest MacBook. No computer of mine has ever had a hardware problem, except that DVD drive.

But, Snow Leopard won't run on my G5. I am also on a strict budget, so Adobe CS3, QuarkXPress 7.31 and Office 2004 will be the last upgrades I will ever buy. The G5 will not be replaced until it breaks, but it's running fine after five years. Can't see why it wouldn't run another five.

(touch wood)

I still have my 12-year-old CRT next to my Apple Cinema as a dual-monitor setup on my Mac Pro. A friend came in to use it and was shocked seeing the palettes on the CRT, couldn't believe I could use such a soft, non-sharp, unreadable, dark monitor. I had to admit, the Cinema blew away the CRT. I guess that's a good demonstration of how much sharper LCDs are. When I get some money the CRT will go away, but for now the CRT is still operational enough to stash palettes on with the main content on the Cinema.

For a Mac to be productive as a main machine for five years or more, I think the Mac Pro is the way to go. The mini will be out of date so fast, it isn't even funny. The iMac, same thing, just not quite as bad. My Mac Pro still feels fantastic after 3 years and you can keep upgrading the parts. The problem is that Apple no longer sells a good low-end Mac Pro that is anywhere near affordable like when I bought mine. Which I got from the Apple Refurbished store, by the way, to save another couple hundred dollars. This is one of the Macs I have that has had no problems.

Gee Styrafome . . . now you're giving me more doubts about getting the 24" iMac. I really do want that high-end Mac Pro that Apple has on their site, but gosh, darn it, I'll probably hit my 70th birthday before I have enough money saved up for it . . . and by then, that machine will no longer be in production! Hmmm . . . maybe I won't be in production either; that is, maybe I'll be dead! :)

FreeLunch, until a few months ago, I too had a box full of dozens and dozens of old floppies; but ever since I lost my last floppy drive in my G3 -- which went to the trash quite some time ago -- I've had no use for them. So, I finally trashed that box of floppies.

I also still have quite a few unused 100 MB Iomega Zip disks as well. While I still do have zip drives in these old G4's, I rarely ever use them, except to back up registration numbers and passwords, and similar small files.

What I really miss is the DVD-RAM drive that came in one of my G4's. Those things are great, because unlike CD's and DVD's, you don't have to erase the whole disk in order to write to them again. DVD-RAM disks, as most folks here will probably already know, are just like reading and writing to an internal or external drive. Until my drive stopped opening, I was using 4.7 and 9.4 DVD-RAM disks to back up my BBS files and Hotline server files, which changed frequently.

I know what you mean about software upgrades. I finally got sick of it as well . . . especially with the expensive stuff that I bought like Adobe products. As you will know, it wasn't that long ago that software developers offered lifetime licenses . . . until they started getting both lazy and greedy. Rather than work harder to get new customers for their products, they introduced the yearly subscription nonsense so that they could sit back and just keep milking their same users over and over again.

Now watch some offended software developers come and bite my heels! :P

If I might be permitted to get back on topic, I have just retired a 19" 6-year old ViewSonic CRT monitor because it was finally fading; not as bright, not as sharp, not as much contrast as it had when new. The Samsung wide 22 LCD I replaced it with is really great and very sharp with a reasonable viewing angle.

One factor not mentioned above is resolution. An LCD monitor has a native resolution and nothing looks as good on it if you change that to something below that resolution. A CRT, being an analog device, doesn't care -- it supports all of its resolution settings equally well.

The one place where LCDs definitely take a back seat to CRT displays is in harsh environments, the first that comes to mind is primary education. The CRT eMac is a tank - we have several. Hard to move, which also means hard to knock over, no sharp corners, and the one delicate part (optical drive tray) is easily replaceable. Sure, they're warm, but you can just about use a hammer on the screen without worrying about breakage. The demons little darlings can throw wood blocks at it all day if they want. Anyone want to volunteer their new flat-panel iMac for the same abuse?

Hello NovaScotian. When I was forced to trash my G3 mini-tower some time ago, I also had to dispose of my 19" ViewSonic CRT monitor. I can't remember the model number now, but it was the one that has speakers on the front left and right sides, and various controls along the front of the monitor. I enjoyed that monitor and used it until its last dying breath when the screen image began to shake something horrible unless I turned down the resolution to around 800 x 600.

I am also familiar with your second comment, as my daughter has a ViewSonic LCD monitor connected to her old G4. It too has a native resolution, and if you try to change it to something lower, not only does it look worse, but the monitor will immediately warn you that you should change the resolution to its default setting.

I don't like this, because sometimes you like to use older programs that in fact need lower resolutions, because they were only made to support 256 colors for example, such as old games, old BBS software, etc.

Acme.mail.order, I know what you mean. Occasionally I will go into my daughter's room to dust off her desk and computer, and just touching the LCD monitor makes me a tiny bit nervous, because, as you probably know, if it is on, and you touch it, it makes that dark shadow in the spot where you touch it, as if it is soft and fragile, and as if you can almost put your finger through it, which you obviously can't.

With CRT's, you can rub that sucker's hard glass, or whatever substance it is, and not have to worry.

But alas . . . we speak in vain, because within a few years at best, we will ALL be using LCD's, or whatever the new technology happens to be at the time.

Hang on . . . I need to rub a stubborn spot off of this 10-year-old Apple CRT Display. ;) ;)

Ahh, yes: You could take Windex to a CRT screen. Nervous about cleaning an LCD.

Aren't the glossy screens on the newer systems made of glass?

A soft cotton cloth (I usually just use an old 100% cotton t-shirt) and a tiny bit of water to dampen the cloth cleans up an LCD screen with no problems.

Trevor

They are. Thin, breakable sheets of glass that make excellent knives if treated improperly.

I've never had a problem using Windex on modern LCD screens. Just spray it on a lint free cloth (not paper!) towel rather than the screen.

I thought you weren't supposed to use Windex on CRTs or LCDs because of the coatings. I don't definitely know though.

Ah, gee, guys...just be crude like me...

Just use a little good old spit and a bit of toilet paper!

Of course, your monitor might acquire an odd smell after a while, which other family members might find offensive.

Relax...just joking...I think! :) :)

I stand corrected. Although, I've never used much, just a light spray on a towel, it appears that just about all manufacturers recommend avoiding any cleansing chemicals, including ammonia.

I guess the best solution is a 50-50 mixture of isopropyl alcohol and distilled water. Again, only applied to the cloth.

Well, unless I am mistaken, CRT monitors -- and TV set screens -- have been made of glass for decades -- at least I assume it is glass -- and personally, I've never had a problem with them. I can rub them, and clean them confidently, without worrying about damaging them, unlike those soft screen LCD's, whatever they are made out of. If the newer LCD's do have a glass screen, personally, I'd look at that as a plus.

Over the years, I've only had one defect occur on one of my CRT's, and that was when we had a SuperTyphoon blow through our area a number of years ago, and the CRT got a small nick in it from flying debris.

Of course, that same storm demolished my bedroom, and took out both bedroom windows, which took the landlord five months to replace, due to a serious glass shortage here. For the uninitiated, a SuperTyphoon is like a Category 5 hurricane.

I'd be careful about applying any amount of alcohol to a monitor of any kind. As you may know, over time, alcohol will dry out and make plastic brittle, just like it would do to the rubber guides on old tape recorders.