The polar Ramadan "day" was standardised by fatwa ages ago. When the sun doesn't set at all, the fasting "day" is, I believe, 19 hours.

of course not, you wouldn't want stale beer for the rest of eternity ;)

We are not turning this into a debate about the merits of religion, period.

@kel101 I still would like to know if there is any cultural significance behind a summer ramadan, and if it's somehow treated differently than fasting in the winter months.

That was not my intention at all. I merely wished to clarify before anyone took offense that the "useless" in my suggested thread title came from the existing "Interesting but useless facts" thread title rather than from my opinion of religions in general.

I guess the need to clarify in the first place is the very reason religion is a taboo subject around here. Though my own beliefs lie somewhere between agnostic and atheist, I'm still interested in where others are coming from and my suggestion came from curiosity rather than malignancy.

that wasn't what I was trying to do at all, it was merely a pastafarian joke :rolleyes:

I began a fasting ritual when I was in my early twenties for several reasons, although overeating was not one of them. I had recently graduated from art school (paid my own way by working long hours), was rather poor, and decided to embrace and explore the asceticism that I couldn't avoid. It was a practical as well as spiritual decision.

I fasted one day per week, drinking only water. I didn't eat a larger than normal meal the night before or the morning after, because that seemed to violate the spirit of what I was doing. It wasn't as difficult as I thought it would be.

I also owned no car, washed my clothes by hand often, but not exclusively (to pay for the laundromat, I often gathered loose change while walking or biking to work), exercised regularly, and read voraciously. I became vegetarian (not vegan) partly to save money and partly to teach myself a new way of cooking. I was attempting to improve myself while accepting the limits of my existence.

It was ultimately very rewarding. I learned to be more responsible, rational, generous, and compassionate. I'm in my early forties now, with a wife, and two young children (for them, I gave up strict vegetarianism). I still try to live simply, but I no longer fast regularly. Maybe I'll try it again.

@fazstp & FelixMC -- Ah, okay. As you were then!

@capitalj -- That's really interesting. I can understand you're comments on practicality, but even more than that, I like the idea of doing it just to learn something new about yourself and the world around you. I think I often forget that you don't always have to do something for a higher purpose, but sometimes you can do it just for the experience itself...

I tried being vegetarian once when I was a teenager. I wanted to do it for a week just to know what it would feel like. Oddly, the only thing I remember is my dad giving me scriptures that talked about how eating meat was okay. And, as much as I tried to explain myself, it never seemed to get across that I was just curious about what it was like... As far as lasting effects, I'm not as big a fan of red meat as I used to be, but that's about it... Maybe I should try that again, see if it has an further effects :).

One of the most valuable lessons I learned in art school is that limitations force you to be more creative. And to me, learning about myself and the world around me is a sufficiently higher purpose because it makes me a better citizen of the world

Oh how I baffled (well, still do to some extent) friends and family. It was as if they forgot that they ate vegetables, too, particularly around holidays:

And waitstaff regularly gave my salad and water to my wife, and her steak tips and beer to me, despite having taken our orders personally.

People forget that not being forbidden isn't the same as being required. And people forget that not everything is about them. My vegetarianism was a personal choice and not a moral judgement, and particularly not a response to the choices of others:

It alarms me how common it is for people to view the choices of others as inimical to their own, as if my tabouli somehow makes their sirloin go rancid.

Anyway, my first experiment with vegetarianism was to go a full month without eating meat or junk food, then go back to my previous habits for comparison. It turned out that I preferred a vegetarian diet, and junk food had become too sweet or salty for my taste. It still is, mostly. And I felt healthier, but since I was already in good health, that was a pretty subjective conclusion. Now that I am older, however, my annual checkups have better results since I switched back to a heart healthy diet with minimal meat intake. My younger brothers are on heart medication - but I am not.

I doubt I'll go back to strict vegetarianism. Bacon is too yummy, even if I only eat it a few times per year. Fasting, however, I am strongly considering.

I don't know if you'd call my vegetarianism a moral choice. I just can't help but think of the living creature that was killed to bring the meat to the table. If someone gave me a cow and a bolt gun and asked me to help myself I couldn't do it so it seems hypocritical to allow someone else to do it on my behalf. I do cook meat for my wife and kids though. My daughter especially is too finicky to get a balanced diet from my vegetarian meals.

I know what you mean about other people feeling that my choice reflects on them but I make no judgements about other peoples' dietary choices.

It is a bit odd how people will sometimes assume that since you do things a certain way, you therefore think they are doing things the wrong way. But let us re-imagine capitalj's dialogue from before:

On some things the difference makes no difference.

I would suppose that it really comes down to a sense of morality being attached to a decisions. With my parents, I think they were under the impression that I was becoming an environmentalist (and the joke was on them, I already was, and yes, I know there isn't necessarily a connection between the two, they just felt that way.) They must have thought I was going to become very judgmental of them as a result, and perhaps they were preemptively defending themselves? I dunno, I might be assuming too much.

I do try very hard not to be judgmental (I'm not perfect at it, I know that...). I wish it were possible people wouldn't assume I was going to judge them because I have a difference of opinion with them. I wish we could all understand that we can't possibly know everything, so why go around having solid opinions like we do? Oh well...

At any rate, fasting has been a great experiment. I'm thinking of turning it into a bi-weekly thing. What do you guys think?

Biweekly, semiweekly... those words made me hesitate even before the usage of biweekly came to include the the definition of semiweekly (twice per week).

If you were abstaining from all food during your fast, I would say once per week should be the limit, but you are simply restricting your food intake. You might want to consider a slightly more balanced meal that a few dinner rolls if you are increasing the frequency of fasting.

It will be interesting to see how your fasting affects the rest of the week. To this day, I am be happy eating the same foods every day, and in smaller portions. It makes shopping easier. But it makes my wife crazy - sometimes she can't enjoy her breakfast because she is tired of watching me eat oatmeal every single day, year after year, switching to yoghurt only during the warmest weeks of the summer. I enjoy oatmeal with raisins, brown sugar, and cinnamon enough that eating it every day is indulgence, not moderation. And it's good for me.

In my life, I try to differentiate between moral choices, personal decisions applying to and affecting oneself, which can be freely made, and moral judgements, which apply to everybody and must be cautiously made, preferably by consensus. Although I have soapbox moments, I prefer to focus on my own life, where I have a better chance of making the correct decision.

I don't know why, but I really like this statement, especially the latter sentence

Brett

@capitalj -- When I say bi-weekly I mean "every two weeks". I don't think I could handle any more than that.

Ahh, the "proper" usage.

Well, in my experience, fasting is not truly meaningful unless done regularly, but shouldn't be done so frequently that it becomes detrimental to your goals and health.