I don't mind seeing political discussion happen on this forum, but only if it could truly be discussion. What we're seeing on this thread, however, is the sort of thing I don't want to have happen.

I'd suggest we deal with the issue of the computer related request, and when that's done, we move on.

http://www.history.navy.mil/wars/dstorm/dsfeb.htm

Re: Napalm in Desert Storm
 

It's hard to argue with official Navy history. I stand corrected.

I was an Air Force fighter pilot from 1985 until 1997 and I can categorically state that we (in the Air Force) didn't have, employ, or train to employ Napalm. I'm actually quite surprised to see that one of our sister services did.

Mr Scott still twists the story, though. According to that Navy history, "Marines are also dropping napalm in oil-filled Iraqi trenches to ignite oil, clear a path for assault forces." So here we have Marines using napalm to ignite oil in trenches. Yet Mr. Scott claims we dropped napalm on Iraqi troops, which is quite different.

Also, Mr. Scott shows a picture of burned human remains which he says is an Iraqi soldier incinerated by napalm. I found the source of this picture at http://www.deoxy.org/wc/warcrime.htm and they say "The clear rapid incineration of the human being [pictured above] suggests the use of napalm, phosphorus, or other incindiary bombs." Again, this shows Mr. Scott to be exaggerating, for they say his appearance "suggests" the use of an incindiary bomb, while Mr. Scott says it's definitely napalm. I would also submit that it's possible the soldier was dead and his vehicle simply burned around him.

And this original source document was written, in part, by Ramsey Clark, man so far left of center that even Salon magazine calls him "The war criminal's best friend" and a colleague calls "a good man gone ga-ga."

Chris

Before judging, do your homework. You will be amazed at what you will discover. It looks to me that your statment against wgscott has the same tone as the starter of this thread. To be fair with myself, I need to state that your way of treating wgscott was not correct.

If you are interested to know more about other voices in the USA, I recommend you read:

"Necessary Illusions"
"Rogue States"
"The Common Good"
"Manufacturing Consent"

By Naom Chomsky
Institute Professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

It's always good to be aware of all the colors of the rainbow, even if you don't agree with the color you see.

disappointment
 

I hoped this forum would stay clear.

I'm disappointed. Most of all in Merv.

I'm removing my account, so you won't have to ban me for a personal attack.

However, when phrases like "stupid u.s. flag" become off limits, you have to start worrying about how opinions affect cold judgements.

I'm behind all troops (US, UK, Australian and Iraqi) in Iraq. I'm supporting them by calling them to stop.

The US and UK administrations are on a disaster course, and seem determined to take the world with it.

Worryingly, it also seems to have dragged open forums down too.

I'm sorry if some disagree, but you can't help it when your media is so overtly, horribly corrupted and controlled by the government.

If I stay, I'll just say something I'll regret, and hurt people who don't know any better.

Goodbye.

[edit]
will one of the mods tell me how to unsubscribe? Otherwise:

JayBee is an apologist, cowardly idiot.

That's my personal attack on a forum member. Thanks.
[/edit]

Sorry, JayBee. If you want to leave, that's your choice, not ours. Come back any time you want.

Political threads have been the bane of more than one good tech forum, and quite frankly, I could do without them at all here. The gravity of the discussions really invite face-to-face human interaction, and not disembodied web postings.

Just Craig's personal opinion, not shared by many others.

Jaybee,

I understand your frustration and dissapointment...

But, this is a Mac OS X forum and we are here to learn from each other.

Please, don't leave.

If anyone wants to start a thread on politics, the war, or whatever, please do so as the stated topic of the thread. If the discussion on that thread can stay civil, that's great. If not, the thread will be closed or even deleted. There's too much of a greater good on this board to discuss matters pertaining to OS X with one another than to alienate one another with our political views: just not worth it, imo, especially when there are countless other discussion forums where politics are aired out.

If my fellow mods agree, I'd suggest that this one be closed. I don't see much of a chance for civil discussion given the tone of the opening post.

Jaybee,

I don't think you should leave, it doesn't warrant it. I think everyone is feeling tense and frustrated. It is an OSX forum.
That said, the leakage we've seen thus far was bought on by a person who was clearly upset and couldn't help him/herself. Even I had an infantile sarcastic jibe. It's inevitable. It reminds of a protest my friend went to on Thursday, the police were getting a bit testy and some kids decided to trash a MacDonalds and the tear gas came out, it just goes downhill.
I agree with Phil, I think alot of people need to vent and maybe a single thread could be started to allow that. In the spirit of helping people get things off their chest, within reason of course.

What can I say? I've lost faith in a moderator on this board who I used to respect a great deal as someone wise both in terms of OS X and in the realities and vagaries of human life.

If the moderators of a hints board are to use the political opinions of those asking for hints as a basis for deciding whether they should dispense their wisdom and then publicly air that, as opposed to just refraining from posting, then I'm sorry, but the hints board has lost its way and the moderator is no better than a common flame-baiter.

Which is why I leave.

I'll still be reading the main site - I have no problem with Griffman, with the majority of people on this board, with frank discussion about the current state of the planet, or with differing opinions.

I just think that some mods need to get their act together and practice what their fellow mods are preaching.

chabig: thanks a bundle. to say your post has be an revelation to me would grossly understate the magnitude of your help. really.

concerning the discussion:
what's up? as far as i can tell a few people vented a few frustrations. nothing important happened today?!
seriously, i fail to see why can't just get on with discussing OS X. it's not as if anyone continously insulted/upset/annoyed/accused/whatever any/everyone else. no need to consider closing threads or leaving the community.
<caps>it is not a big deal</caps> especially given the familiar shortcommings of written communication. maybe the opposing parties could just shake hands or hug each other and be done with it?

markus

I would simply point people to the first stickied post of this forum, named, oddly enough "the purpose of this forum" or similar.

In it, one will find the enlightening passage:

As much as I personally enjoy even a rollicking religious or political debate, I do it elsewhere, where it is not specifically proscribed.

It would be a shame for some to take umbrage at what is basically spelled out fairly clearly in the opening post, and use that umbrage as a banner of martyrdom.

there are more important things in the world. Not everything has to be a fight to the death. May I humbly suggest involved parties step away from the keyboard, strum a Vulcan lyre with Spock or bust a move with Tupak Shakur or chill with Barry Manilow (though I personally would rather drink my own vomit) and take a breather.

Then, return, as a prodigal son/daughter and return to discussing OSX.

thank you, that is all, and remember, Silly is ten times more powerful than an IRS tax audit.

:)

This is my feeling on the matter as well. I have stopped visiting the site regularly due to the responses I've received from one particular moderator. This departure has nothing to do with politics, just a general tone and attitude that I find totally unacceptable in a moderator of any site.

Though this might not be the best thread to discuss this issue, it's the best one I've found so far.

For your consideration folks, if you're having an issue with somebody, including a moderator, on the site, sending me a private message or email is a reasonable step to take in the process of resolving it. Or if I'm the source of the issue, then send one to Griffman.

Also if there is a post which you think requires attention, the little "Report this post to a moderator" link at the bottom of a post works.

I (we) do pay attention to those messages, whereas some of the 10,000+ threads may have passed us by, and it's way easier for us to set things right or correct misunderstandings if we hear about them early on instead of after things reach the boiling point.

Thanks.

And with that, this thread is being closed.

Please note the revised statement on the purpose of this forum.