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-   -   Very Odd Web Page Loading Problem (http://hintsforums.macworld.com/showthread.php?t=101898)

mnewman 05-24-2009 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw (Post 534669)
ps - I have to add, whoever designed that site has an unfortunate love of flashing text. gives me a frigging headache. :)

Sadly, many Thai web pages are like that. Have a look here and keep a bottle of aspirin handy. This is one of the most popular web portals in Thailand:

Sanook

tw 05-24-2009 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnewman (Post 534670)
The reason I think it's machine specific is that the page is generated incorrectly even under virtual machines. Plus, I know that the page works fine when my wife views it under XP using FireFox at work. But when I run XP on a virtual machine on the Mac Mini, the page generation fails just as it does under the Mac OS on the same machine.

Could it be a network configuration issue?

well, I don't doubt that it's machine-specific, but I think it's machine-specific on the server end, not the client end (i.e., something on the server is identifying different machines correctly but doing something incorrect with that identification). I'm not ASP programmer, but a brief look at the docs tells me that the ASP browser detection system is a bit of a bear to work with. apparently ASP has a whole set of profiles for determining user agents, and an extensible system for creating user-defined rules, all of which is just begging for something screwy to happen.

Microsoft... they refuse to comply with W3 standards that would make browser integration simplistic, and 'compensate' for the problem by creating the world's kludgiest sniffer. yeesh.

mnewman 05-24-2009 05:23 AM

As a last resort I fired up XP under Virtual Box and tried Internet Explorer. Same failure. So, I went to the 2privacy.com site to see how the browser is identified:

Quote:

JavaScript: Enabled
Java: Enabled
Your local time and time zone: Sun May 24 10:17:15 UTC+0100 2009
Your local time format : Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:17:15 AM
Browser Language: en-us
User Language: en-us
System Default Language: en-us
Your operating system: Windows XP
Your CPU type: x86
Your browser: Internet Explorer 6
The following information is send by your browser automatically when you visit a website: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1)
Your Current Screen Area (Width x Height): 1240 x 618
Colors: 32 True Color
Current window size (Width x Height): 868 x 411
Your Referrer: http://www.2privacy.com/cgi-bin/PC_B...rivacy_Test.pl
You have visited 2 pages in this window
Cookies: Enabled
So, even with the machine identified as an x86, the browser as IE6 and the OS as Windows XP, the server still fails to properly generate the page.

I guess it's time to give up and thank everyone for their help!

hayne 05-24-2009 12:08 PM

Since the problem even occurs in virtual machines, I think it is likely to be something in the networking setup of the afflicted Macs.
You could investigate this by looking at the low level packets being sent (e.g. with "WireShark").

Or just do an "archive & install" (checking the box to preserve users) from the OS X Install CD/DVD to get a fresher start. I say "fresher" rather than "fresh" since that checkbox to preserve users also preserves network settings, so it may preserve whatever (I presume) is causing the problem. In that case, a full "erase & install" might be called for.

tw 05-24-2009 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayne (Post 534715)
Since the problem even occurs in virtual machines, I think it is likely to be something in the networking setup of the afflicted Macs.
You could investigate this by looking at the low level packets being sent (e.g. with "WireShark").

Or just do an "archive & install" (checking the box to preserve users) from the OS X Install CD/DVD to get a fresher start. I say "fresher" rather than "fresh" since that checkbox to preserve users also preserves network settings, so it may preserve whatever (I presume) is causing the problem. In that case, a full "erase & install" might be called for.

except that it happens with my machine, too - do I share a network setup problem with some guy I've never met? I think the archive and install suggestion might be a bit premature...

hayne 05-24-2009 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw (Post 534721)
except that it happens with my machine, too - do I share a network setup problem with some guy I've never met?

The sort of problem I'm thinking of is some 3rd-party firewall or other network-related software. It's not that unlikely that you both have the same software installed.
One thing to try might be to do a Safe Boot (holding down the Shift key after the startup chime) and then see if the problem exists.

mnewman 05-24-2009 07:33 PM

I tend to agree that it's a networking problem, but I can't imagine what it might be. All the machines are connected to the same router, a LinkSys WRT54G running Tomato version 1.23. All connect via DHCP and all have manually assigned IP addresses. None of the machines have third party firewall software installed and all have the native firewall turned off. The router firewall is on. One, and only one, of the afflicted machines has Little Snitch installed, but it is currently turned off.

The router has QoS enabled, but disabling it didn't help. I tried turning on DMZ for one of the afflicted machines, but that didn't help either.

One of the afflicted machines is a G3 iBook that does nothing but host a web cam. It had a clean install of Tiger (10.4) late last year and the only thing that has been installed on it since then is the web cam software and Apple software updates. In other words, it's about as pure as the driven snow as you can get....

At this point, I'm more interested in actually figuring this out than I am in actually eliminating the problem. It's become an interesting puzzle.

I'll give Wireshark a try. I'm an old retired geezer and no longer the sharpest kid on the block, but at least it will keep me occupied on what looks like a rainy day in the tropics.

cwtnospam 05-24-2009 08:22 PM

It seems that for systems that it doesn't work on, no javascript is being sent at all. This makes me think that it's something to do with the HTTP_ACCEPT headers. See if they're different using this link which should show a little different information about your headers:
http://nerdlabs.org/tools/request_headers.php

If this is right then it is a problem with their ASP code.

mnewman 05-24-2009 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cwtnospam (Post 534787)
It seems that for systems that it doesn't work on, no javascript is being sent at all. This makes me think that it's something to do with the HTTP_ACCEPT headers. See if they're different using this link which should show a little different information about your headers:
http://nerdlabs.org/tools/request_headers.php

If this is right then it is a problem with their ASP code.

Is this what you were after?

Quote:

PowerBook (Works)

Host www.nerdlabs.org
User-Agent Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X 10_5_7; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Safari/528.17
Referer http://www.nerdlabs.org/tools/index.php
Accept application/xml,application/xhtml+xml,text/html;q=0.9,text/plain;q=0.8,image/png,*/*;q=0.5
Accept-Language en-us
Accept-Encoding gzip, deflate
Cookie __utma=99308289.1341665213.1243213265.1243213265.1243213265.1; __utmb=99308289; __utmc=99308289; __utmz=99308289.1243213265.1.1.utmccn=(direct)|utmcsr=(direct)|utmcmd=(none)
Connection keep-alive

MacMini (Doesn't Work)

Host nerdlabs.org
User-Agent Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10_5_7; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Safari/528.17
Referer http://nerdlabs.org/tools/request_headers.php
Accept application/xml,application/xhtml+xml,text/html;q=0.9,text/plain;q=0.8,image/png,*/*;q=0.5
Accept-Language en-us
Accept-Encoding gzip, deflate
Cookie __utma=99308289.2128264485.1243211985.1243211985.1243211985.1; __utmb=99308289; __utmc=99308289; __utmz=99308289.1243211985.1.1.utmccn=(referral)|utmcsr=forums.macosxhints.com|utmcct=/showthread.php|utmcmd=referral
Connection keep-alive
The ACCEPT headers look the same to me. Is there something else I should check?

mnewman 05-24-2009 10:38 PM

Good News - Bad News
 
The bad news is that the site is no longer working with the PowerBook, where it used to work just fine.

The good news is that I don't have to worry about it anymore. No "good" machine to compare with now.

cwtnospam 05-25-2009 09:24 AM

I wonder if they'd updated the page and you just had one system that was still using a cache. Does anyone still get the reply form?

mnewman 05-25-2009 06:02 PM

I just tried to load that page again this morning and get this:

Service Unavailable

tw 05-25-2009 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnewman (Post 534927)
I just tried to load that page again this morning and get this:

Service Unavailable

and I suspect there's a 'Web Help Wanted' ad circulating around the Thai Craigslist right about now. :rolleyes:

mnewman 05-26-2009 10:46 PM

Solution
 
As noted above this web site was down for a while. It's now back up and one addition indicates a probable solution for the trouble I was having. The ThaiJustice web board main page now contains a bright red, scrolling notice that says that the web board policy is that you must have visited the site five days in order to reply to posts and seven days to post a new topic. This notice does not appear on the Thai Justice main page nor on the pages that display individual threads.

This policy is enforced using cookies.

This explains why only one of my machines could "see" the reply form. That's the machine my wife usually uses. And, she uses whatever account happens to be logged in at the time. That's why I could see the reply form on that machine from my account, but not on any other machine.

The crazy thing is that although they use the cookies to decide whether or not to display the reply form, they continue to display an anchor link to the reply form [<a href="#wwbaaddfm">คลิกที่นี่</a>] at the bottom of the page even when the reply form is not there.

Unfortunately this does not explain how acme.mail.order was able to download the page source, including the reply form, using curl.


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