Desktop manager?
 

Anybody know of a utility/application that will create a desktop that is larger than my display? For instance, something that would let me create a 3000x4000 desktop where the screen would scroll in the direction my mouse 'wants' to go when it hits that particular side of the display?

If you've ever used the zooming control in OS X, it would be similar to being zoomed in quite far, and as you scroll your mouse pointer one way or another, the desktop, the boundaries of which are beyond the limits of the screen, scrolls until you reach the boundary of the desktop.

I once obtained a Windows app that allowed this, but at the time it was not something I needed. But I would like to use something like this now, on the Mac.

Since you shouldn't be dumping hundreds of files on your desktop, it seems that there is no need for something like this.

Have you used Spaces at all?

It is true that having lots of icons on your Desktop does slow your machine's performance, though you don't really say why you want this particular arrangement. What's the plan for this huge Desktop?

"it seems that there is no need for something like this."
==
People do it all the time with "virtual" desktops. I'm just looking for a way to make that virtual desktop part of my one desktop, instead of 2, 3, or 4 desktops or two monitors (in fact, I'm using my second display right now to view this website) that are all the same size. Just one very large desktop that extends beyond the borders of the screen. I know for certain I've seen this on XP. I'd like to know if the Mac has something like this.

I want to be able to see a pdf and photo at 100% resolution at once. Applications allow me to resize to fit the page, but I want to be able to set it at 100% and have a large enough desktop to contain it all, regardless of whether it all fits on my display or not.

In any application, I can set the zoom to 100% and then navigate around that document in 100%. That's what I want to do in Finder, all the time. If I open up a folder whose files are so numerous that they can not be all listed and seen at once on the screen, I want to be able to take a screenshot of the folder, and be able to see the entire contents in the screen shot.

You can set Preview to open PDFs at 100%. Open Preview, then use the Preview menu to select Preferences. In the PDF section you can set it there. If the PDF is larger than your screen, though, then you can't "have a large enough desktop to contain it all."

the desktop is not a 'real' space where this kind of concern makes sense. I mean, what is the difference between having an application window that displays an X-by-Y section of an image stored in memory; and having an image which is somehow 'entirely' displayed, though you can only see a given X-by-Y section of it at a time? in either case, the stuff you can't see is a ghost. I mean, I understand: you want the desktop to use the same metaphor as a normal folder in icon view, but that's just not the way the desktop metaphor was designed. if this is just a personal personal quirk about the way the desktop should work, that's something to discuss, but not something there's a lot to be done about. if you have a more specific goal, though, that might be approachable (for instance, it's entirely possible that some app lets you take a screenshot of the entire contents of a folder at once, even parts that are offscreen at the moment).

you wrote: "it's entirely possible that some app lets you take a screenshot of the entire contents of a folder at once, even parts that are offscreen at the moment"
==

I could have swore that I saw an article on MacWorld's website about such an app that gave you the option to make a screenshot of the entire contents of a window, even the part that was not visible on the display you have. That kind of feature would be great under special circumstances where, like I've mentioned before, the actual size of a photo or graphic was bigger than the display device being used. I would think that if the desktop size could be enlarged on a system-wide basis, these abilities would not have to be application specific, but would more than likely be typical for all like applications. Much like we see a standardization of fonts on an operating system rather than being proprietary for each individual application...

again, this notion of an 'actual size' is misleading. images printed on paper have an 'actual size'; images on a computer are just data, and what you see is a processed representation of that data. all image processing apps already have tools for making copies or snapshots of entire images regardless of viewing size, because the idea of an extended area for images makes sense. but how does this make sense for the desktop? sure, corporate executives always want bigger desks (because a bigger desk is imposing, and anyone who walks into the office can see what a big desk they have), but a computer desktop is just a visual space. what's the advantage of having areas of a visual space that you can't see?

you wrote: "what's the advantage of having areas of a visual space that you can't see?"
==

I work in CAD every day. I could see an advantage to having a larger desktop that becomes visible simply by moving my mouse to the edge of the screen and thus exposing that side of the document more, in a case if I was in the middle of a command that required me selecting a point or object that was just beyond the display's view. Some apps allow you to zoom in and out with the scroll wheel to aid in positioning the object or point so that it can be selected in the display. It eliminates having to switch "desktops" that have the content you want. If that kind of feature was available on a system wide basis, I think it could be very advantageous in several ways we use our computers. The monitor's display may not be big enough to see the entire latitude or your data, but accessing it would be as easy as scrolling your view out to the necessary distance to see where your data is, and then simply scrolling back in on it.

well, I don't see it, but that doesn't mean it's not useful. at any rate, I don't know of any app that does this. you should look into the various alternative file systems (e.g. PathFinder) and see if they implement this.

You know that in OS X by default you can zoom in many times over in and out, would that feature help you?

I use CAD myself and I understand what you are saying. For example, when I am looking at a layout and want to measure a precise distance. I zoom in, center my origin, zoom out, move over to the other point I want to measure, zoom in again and then measure a precise distance.

You can always go to 'System Preferences' > 'Universal Access' > Click Zoom [On] and use the shortkey for zooming in and out. You have already said that what you are looking for is similar to this, so what else are you looking for.

Please give us the application you were using with XP that you claim does this.

Windows also has a built in zoom feature, but it acts more like a magnifying glass. It is under accessibility.

Pixie may work
 

Is this what you are looking for? If so, you get it from installing the development package that came with your cd. Once you have this installed, you will find it in the following path:

/Developer/Applications/"Graphics Tools"/Pixie.app/



http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/6205/pixie.png
By roncross at 2009-05-17

You wrote: "You can always go to 'System Preferences' > 'Universal Access' > Click Zoom [On] and use the shortkey for zooming in and out. You have already said that what you are looking for is similar to this, so what else are you looking for. Please give us the application you were using with XP that you claim does this."
==

I don't remember the app for WinXP. It might have been in the ATI or NVIDIA Display Adapter (or some other video adapter card I've owned over time) applets, that allowed this. I really don't remember. I just remember being able to do it, but since I didn't have a need for it, it was just a big "whoop-tee-do" at the time.

The option to zoom in and out with the scroll wheel, of a CAD drawing to "land" at specific parts of the drawing is one of the most time saving features I've ever seen. Prior to that it required panning over, which required keyboard input as well. It just seems to me that to have this feature available system-wide using an enlarged desktop would also speed productivity up. Honestly I'd probably prefer that over having to switch desktops.

As far as desktop zooming, again this only works in areas predefined to the maximum resolution of your display adapter, or worse yet, your display (ie, even though your display adapter COULD drive a larger desktop on a monitor that can display it, the attached display can't support it). Being able to 'have' that large of a desktop regardless of the capacity of the panel on your laptop is what I'm driving at, here. And with the ability to zoom in and out with the scroll wheel (for instance) to different parts of the desktop, would make the video adapter on my 17" Macbook Pro more valuable to me.

Yes, we have virtual desktops that try to take care of this, as well as additional displays. But it would be nice to be able to have the extra desktop space available when I don't have the extra monitors around, and switching from one virtual desktop to another requires input that, though a minor inconvenience, remains an extra step I'd like to see go "bye bye."

One big desktop instead of a bunch of small ones that I have to switch to all the time...

The only way I know of to get the enlarged desktop that you speak of is thru 'System Preferences', other than that you are looking at developing this application yourself.

you wrote: "Is this what you are looking for?"
==

No, that isn't what I'm looking for. What I'm looking for is the ability to support a desktop that extends beyond the borders of my display, just like what is supported in an application like Photoshop or AutoCAD, where you can pan around a photo or drawing that is represented in more pixels than than the application's window is. Only, I'd like to see that feature built into OS X, so that the actual application windows I have open are larger than the display I'm viewing them with.

I use a nice little helper app called DejaMenu. It allows me to press a defined keyboard combo that will pop up the application menus right where the mouse pointer is on my screen. This means I don't have to navigate up to the top of the screen to access the menus.

There are some people who don't see the value in this sort of thing. I do, and that's why I use it. I think the same goes for using virtual desktops rather than using the dock for switching through programs. It's a user preference.

I personally would love the see the ability to zoom out so I can see where on my desktop, my database application is, and then zoom into it to work on it. And then when I want to do some drafting, I zoom out to locate one of three files I'm working on so I can see the one I want to edit, and then scroll right into it.

I think you already can do that via the built in zoom feature.

you wrote: "The only way I know of to get the enlarged desktop that you speak of is thru 'System Preferences', other than that you are looking at developing this application yourself.[/quote]
==

Are you suggesting that I can enlarge my desktop through an applet in System Preferences? If so, how? My display can show a desktop at 1680x1050, but I can't view a desktop of 2500x2150 (for instance) on that 1680x1050 LCD, can I? There is nothing available that will allow me to have a 1900x2048, even though I can only see 1680x1050 of it at one time, right?

I know I can zoom in and then pan around the desktop, but zooming does not give me additional desktop space. It only makes my view smaller and displays it larger. I'd like to be able to pan around at 1:1 pixel ratio, on a larger desktop area than 1680x1050. If my video adapter can support a 30" cinema display, I would think it could also support a "virtual" desktop that is at least as large as the resolution on a 30" cinema display, that I could pan around on using my 1680x1050 window.

basically, you want a different desktop metaphor. rather than zooming in and out of conceptual space (which is what things like expose and spaces try to do) you want to zoom in and out of something resembling real space. while that would be a perfectly fine metaphor (and one that makes a lot of sense with graphics-work, where there is a natural physical relationship between parts), it's not the metaphor apple chose to use. Chacon son gout, if you'll pardon my French.

Connect that 30-inch display, which will give you 2560 x 1600 on one display, without having to scroll around.
Get a MacPro, add a 2nd video card, and connect 4 of those 30-inch for 5120 x 3200 REAL area. :D
Would the 'resolution-independence' technology that has been talked about since before Leopard was released, do what you want?
An application that provides you with scrolling through a graphic file that can be enormously larger than the application window does what you want.
The system 'zoom' feature sort-of does that, but you simply magnify the screen area, and lose sharpness very quickly.

tlarkin and deltamac,

I think the zoom feature in OS X only allows zooming into the desktop that is confined to the display capacity. On my Macbook Pro, the biggest desktop I can have is 1680x1050. The zoom feature in OS X will let you zoom into that area, but not beyond it.

What I'm looking for is an app that allows OS X to create a larger desktop area of, for instance, 4000x3000 at the Finder level, not just inside individual applications. Most publishing or photo applications already allow this to happen inside their application, by letting you set a document size in pixels or inches, but in order to see the entire document at 100%, you have to scroll around the document in the application's window. The technology is already available -- just not on an operating system-wide basis, apparently.

If anybody comes across any information that suggests an application exsits, that enhances the operating system to do this, please let me know!

I have used the zoom feature to zoom into PDFs and web browsers before so I think it works with anything you should at least try it.

EDIT

OH OK I see you want to actually make the desktop resolution physically bigger not just zoom. Took me a second to get that through my head.

Will do, but don't hold your breath. :D As mentioned by several expert users on this forum, Apple has chosen not to implement their OS this way and there is probably no chance that something out there exist for this.

Speak to the guys over at path Finder and ask them if something like this is even possible. They have an app where they use a desktop that they create so they may be able to help you.

Remember, there is always Xcode!

I am pretty sure that you can do this with an X11 window manager. I have seen something like this with fvwm2. You would have to have a rooted X11 window, I don't think that you could do it rootless.

However, if you app isn't X11, then I am not sure that this is even applicable.

Virtual desktop size is something that I have always seen with bundled with the graphics card adapter software. I had an old Matrox that did it, and my work computer with Nvidia can do it. I don't think that my ATI X800 has a virtual desktop size option, though.

Good luck,
Brett

I found on Wiki that one term for this is "Desktop Scrolling." The only example of it, however, was where the desktop scrolled left or right. Perhaps the term I'd use would be Dynamic Virtual Desktop Zooming, since instead of scrolling or switching, the action preferred would be to use the scroll wheel to zoom in and out of different areas of one large desktop.

From the last few posts it looks like you guys understand what I'm trying to explan. SUCCESS! With Apple's "Core" X stuff availability, I would think that the ability to do this with a large desktop would be easy to implement. I'm surprised it isn't available somewhere. Maybe it is and I just haven't found it yet...

As Brett mentioned earlier a lot of that stuff on the Windows side is controlled via the driver. I know that both ATI and Nvidia allow for some weird customizations with their driver control panels.

Now I am curious if there is a Mac equivalent????

It is not an option on the ATI 9200 that I have installed in my PPC tower.

Brett