Time Machine alternative for Tiger?
 

I'm using a G5 running Tiger as a home server and want to back it up. Right now I'm using Retrospect but it's not the friendliest UI in the world.

Is there something that works like Time Machine - does a full backup, then regular incremental backups (keeping the old versions), stores the files in a browsable form, and automatically throws out the old ones when the disk gets full?

I looked at Carbon Copy Cloner but it doesn't seem to handle the "disk full" issue.

Prefer not upgrading to Leopard as the machine is highly configured - a lot of custom MySQL and PHP stuff, sharepoints, etc. And no reason to upgrade. Other than Time Machine that is.

- Bob

Superduper can do wireless and wired backups. Superduper for example has a smart back up that makes subsequent backups very very fast.

Super is not however a incremental back up that allows for prior versions within one backup. Being bootable in the case of the non wireless backups does have its advantages.

To achieve a roll back capability you would need to partition a drive/s into Daily and Weekly (to let you roll back 1 day or one week). Of of course you could do something more like Monday, Tuesday,... etc. Letting you rollback 1 day or 4 or etc.

Time machine is somewhat unique in offering an hourly backup with rollback capability. But you trade bootabilty and possibly reliability of the backup for the more frequent snapshots.

If you care about your data you would want more then one physical back up of your data. Even multiple images on a single partitioned drive offers some additional safety from a blown back up. But more physical copies is always a good idea.

I am sure your aware also that you can find inexpensive raids starting around $300 or so.

Time Machine won't noticeably shorten the lifespan of a drive unless the drive is already defective or failing somehow. If you're doing hourly incremental backups, less than you probably think is happening on the backup disk.

Bootability isn't really an issue. If my drive gets so toasted that it won't boot I'm going to erase/install (or replace/erase/install) and reinstall apps, then just copy over data.

It's looking more and more like Time Machine is the way to go. Maybe I'll just pick up a cheap small(ish) internal drive for OS only and install on that, then copy over what I need. Not super excited about getting the whole MySQL/PHP thing copied over but hey, work's a little slow right now...

Reliability
 

I was not really thinking of drive wear and tear perse

I have not seen a Comparison of Retro, Super, CCC, and all the other backup programs recently that get into the actual reliability of the backup created.

My thought was even if Timemachine and X, lets say Superduper were about equal in reliability the fact that it is trying to do 24 updates a day instead of 1, statistically put you at risk that something might go wrong at the OS or backup Application level or both, and if you did not need 24 backups a day that was something to consider.

The likelihood of what I am suggesting depends of course on many variables. The greatest chance for issues for me (For example I use both Superduper and Time Machine) is with fact that both my computers are Laptops. Time machine being back up happy, the lid gets slammed shut at least 10 times a day in the middle of backups despite (at least me but not my wife) telling Time machine on an Ad hoc basis to stop backing up which takes a while to to unwind from.

I know it's not a Unix forum, but someone might still be interested:

Time Machine For Tiger

-HI-

Neat. Unix. Rsync.

Use FolderOrgX (freeware) to organize your backup files info folder by date. FolderOrg is an AppleScript Folder Action that organizes files and folders by moving them into dated subfolders. This is helpful in keeping files and folders organized by the day they were added, not created or modified. The folder action does not work on external drives.

This little Folder Action is easy to use and indispensable IMHO. I use this for my downloads folder, archive folder and my screen shots folder.

I have a tutorial using Automator to quit Entourage and the daemon then run a backup automatically. It's saved as an ical plugin so I can automate this. You could modify this for specific files you want snapshots of.

This doesn't cover all your wishlist items, but it's very useful for specific backups like your Entourage Identity.

I have reached a point where I have enough significant frying pans on the stove to not want to add another one vis a vis a backup strategy I have to "think" about.

At present my Retrospect strategy will continue to work. Two backup sets, swapped offsite occasionally (probably not often enough but we work at home so we never really leave :)

When I get around to it, and/or end up with a spare 200 GB-ish drive, I'll throw it in the G5, install Leopard and start doing time machine.

Just a thought in the meantime. You should do some weekly or monthly Superduper or CCC as its an actual image. Retro as you know is a proprietary format. I guess with EMC behind them there not going away but its still locks you into their product for a restore.

Good thought. But I need ONE system. I'm not concerned about needing a clone - as I said above, if the drive dies I'll just put in a new one and restore the contents of my documents folder, plus figure out where the mysql databases live and restore them.

I really can't deal with multiple different kinds of backups - just way too busy for that. I need a system that functions hands-off. As it is I'm really lucky if I swap with my offsite copy once a month. Retro runs once a night on an auto schedule. Time Machine would be an improvement as it runs hourly plus stores files in an easier-to-navigate structure.

Someone should build an app that does Time Machine PLUS a clone - sure you need a big drive, or maybe two, but $$ isn't the issue, being fully automated, hands-off is.

For what it is worth Super works with time machine, on one drive. I do not use it that way. I use separate drives for each function. Wireless Time machine plus every few weeks local Super duper Clone.

You're probably right.

I'm just so...dog-gone...tired...of babysitting my computers. I just want them to work so I can do my stuff. I want OS updates to work, and not have to go through some elaborate process so I don't damage things (repairing permissions, downloading the combo updater - why isn't all that automatic?) I want the computer to know what went wrong and fix it, not give me some cryptic message, and then have to scour the forums and Google to find the answer. If I can. Kernel panics, lockups, freezes, font conflicts - why can't the computer identify the font conflict and repair or deactivate the font...just a few examples.

I spent a good part of the day trying to install IIS on Windows XP running on Parallels. Still no luck. We Mac folks have it better than the PC people but not by much.

I guess things are getting better but the progress is awfully slow. We are going to look back some day and say "man, we were SO stone-age..."

I'm old and tired of fighting....I give up...fading now...fading out...

What makes you think you have to repair permissions constantly? Are you buying into the MacFixIt voodoo?

Not constantly, just for OS updates. I always repair permissions before and after, and always update from the combo. Read too many horror stories by people whose OS updates didn't work right. The ones it did work out for always seem to be the ones who took all the steps. Lots of exceptions on both sides I'm sure but I've never had a "bad" OS update and I can't really afford to.

Me either - and I never do permission repair before or after an update.
I hope this doesn't mean you don't have a backup of your machine. If you had a backup, then you could always just go back to your backup. But you need backups for more than just OS updates.

Then you're one of the lucky ones. Or not one of the unlucky ones. Some people don't die from smoking, some do. I'm not going to smoke though :)

I'm guessing you didn't read the rest of this post, which is a discussion of my backup strategy.

It's not always (or "usually not") as easy as "just going back to my backup". What if I do an update, work for a week, and realize that all the crashes I'm now having are a result of the OS update? If the update fails immediately then going back is easy - ish. But not quite so easy once new data is intermingled with old.

Anyway, it's easier to follow the procedure recommended by many and do the permissions repair and combo update. Not easy. Easier. I still think computers are pretty stone-age.

You don't need to repair permissions before an OS update. Anyone who says otherwise has no idea how Mac OS X works. Period. End of story. Did I say period? I mean period. When you're performing a system update, the installer really doesn't care what the permissions are or aren't because OS updates are run with elevated privileges. System updates are god.

Permissions aren't magic. They're not fairy dust. They're not random.

It's entirely fallacious to equate something that is provably irrelevant in most cases (permissions repair) to something provably deadly (smoking). This is a poor argument that I would encourage no one jump down the fox hole after.

sudo chmod -R a-x $(locate '*/Installer.app')
There... now let's see you do a system update,
without repairing permissions first. ;)

[snipped crap]

If you can run the installer and authenticate, permissions can't stop you from performing an OS update. If you can't launch Installer.app, you obviously have a problem, but if you're running permissions repair prior to a system install as "preventative maintenance", you're wasting your time.

edit: argh my bad you were being facetious, i need to go take a nap

I myself have _some_ idea how OS X works, but not much. So I rely on others to tell me what to do. For years I have been reading advice from many sources that say "repair permissions, use the combo updater, repair permissions at the end, disconnect firewire devices while updating" etc. Maybe all of them are right. Maybe you are right. What you say certainly SOUNDS right, but then so did whatever else I read. I have no way of knowing who is more right, so I just do the things that have worked for me and figure as long as they aren't hurting anything, they might help.

I wish I knew enough to know for sure. But, actually, I don't wish I knew. I don't have enough space in my brain to hold that info plus all the stuff I need to do my actual job. And I shouldn't need to. The computer should be smart enough to download the right updates and do them the right way, but having read about a billion horror stories of updates not working, and lacking a personal IT department to take on these headaches for me, I must continue to endure them.

You're right. It's a bad analogy. Really bad. I mean, smoking is unhealthy yet fun, making it also stupid. Permissions repair is innocuous (or possibly helpful) but boring.

Am I the only one who dreams of computers that can actually diagnose and fix their own problems...?

OK - back to work...