Can't Boot from Firewire Drive

[danborden]

I just bought a Western Digital Passport Studio external hard drive to back up my 24" iMac running 10.5.6. The drive has FireWire 800/400 and USB 2.0. I did a backup using SuperDuper, and oddly, when I try to boot from the drive using either Firewire 800/400, holding down the option key when restarting, the only choice is my internal drive. But when I connect with USB, I can boot from the drive. Is this normal behavior?
Thanks,
Dan

[hayne]

It doesn't sound normal - but I don't have any experience with bus-powered drives.
I suspect that the issue is related to the drive not getting power (or enough power) at boot.

[danborden]

Thanks Hayne. But when it does boot using USB, that's Bus powered too. There is no external power supply. So I'm still at a loss.

Dan

[trevor]

First, I'd try to find a power supply for the drive. Does it have a barrel jack plug in the back of it, even if you don't have the matching power supply?

Second, have you blessed the drive? Although I don't use SuperDuper, I *think* that SuperDuper has the ability to automatically bless a drive after you've copied an OS on to it.

Third, when you connect the drive using FireWire, what cable are you using? Perhaps try another cable? If another cable causes the same result, try connecting via FireWire, then setting the FireWire drive as the boot volume using System Preferences > Startup Disk, then rebooting and not holding down any keys. Do you then boot to the FireWire drive?

Fourth, try zapping the PRAM. (directions (http://forums.osxfaq.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=7269)) Does it continue to behave in the same way?

Trevor

[Roger Purves]

I just want to say I had this problem on a November 2001 ibook and a Mercury On the Go Firewire drive (from OWC). The drive would not be "recognized" when bus-powered and I was booting up with the option key down. I don't know why I thought of using the power supply brick, but when I did, the drive was recognized.

In your situation, perhaps the USB device requires less power--an uninformed guess.

Good luck there,

Roger Purves

[danborden]

Thanks Trevor. The instructions with the drive say I have to use the cable that came with it. I tried resetting the PRAM, but no difference. I can select it as the startup drive in system preferences, but it doesn't actually use that drive. I know that because I can eject it, which of course I couldn't if it was the startup drive. (bear in mind, this is all with FireWire only.)

It seems to work fine with USB, and that drive appears as a choice when I press option while starting up, so I guess I'll just use it that way.

Thanks,
Dan

[DeltaMac]

Hope you don't have both FireWire and USB connected at the same time...

[danborden]

Nope - didn't make thatmistake.
Dan

[reeserv]

How is the drive formated?

[danborden]

Max OS Extended - Journaled

[trevor]

Thanks Trevor. The instructions with the drive say I have to use the cable that came with it.

The instructions, as I understand them, to use only the cable that came with the WD Passport Studio (http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=3266&p_created=1232479336&p_sid=PVa5ucrj&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=211&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9NDAsNDAmcF9wcm9kcz0yMjgsMjU5LDI1NiZwX2NhdHM9MTg2JnBfcHY9My4 yNTYmcF9jdj0xLjE4NiZwX3NlYXJjaF90eXBlPWFuc3dlcnMuc2VhcmNoX25sJnBfcGFnZT0x&p_li=&p_topview=1) is only relevant to their weird cable with a 4-pin FireWire (iLink) connector and a USB connector on one side, going to a 9-pin FireWire connector plugging into the drive. You're very likely not using that cable anyway, since Macs don't typically use the 4-pin FireWire (iLink) port on the computer, they use a real 9-pin FireWire port. Thus, the instruction to not use any other cable does not apply to you.

Try a different cable.

I tried resetting the PRAM, but no difference. I can select it as the startup drive in system preferences, but it doesn't actually use that drive. I know that because I can eject it, which of course I couldn't if it was the startup drive. (bear in mind, this is all with FireWire only.)

It seems to work fine with USB, and that drive appears as a choice when I press option while starting up, so I guess I'll just use it that way.

Thanks,
Dan

If the problem is not due to a lack of blessing the Western Digital volume, then it must be due to a problem with the FireWire bridge chipset that Western Digital uses. I highly recommend that people with Macs buy and use Oxford bridge chipsets, not cheaper ones. Oxford bridges are faster, more reliable, and bootable. Bridge chipsets made by other companies, not so much.

Trevor

[danborden]

Trevor,

My iMac does have a Firewire 800 port that fits the cable supplied with the drive. In fact, my first backup with the drive was a backup of my iMac made using FireWire 800 cable that came with the drive, so it is getting power. It just won't boot from FireWire 800 or 400. I suspect the chipset issue may be the problem. I guess for booting, I'll just use the slower USB connection.
Thanks,
Dan

[trevor]

My iMac does have a Firewire 800 port that fits the cable supplied with the drive.

There seems to be a misunderstanding. I'll try to explain again.

The cable that WD says not to use with other drives is this one:
http://support.wdc.com/images/kb/studio_firewire_cable.jpg

This cable, as per the explanation that WD gives us, is
FireWire 6-pin to FireWire 4-pin + USB Mini Type B

The "FireWire 6-pin" is the standard FireWire 400 connector, which plugs into the WD Passport Studio drive. It looks like this:
http://www.cablek.com/client_file/upload/image/firewire-6_pin.jpg

The other end of this weird cable has one FireWire 4-pin, which is also known by Sony's name iLink, and a USB connector. This type of connector is not used on any Mac's built-in hardware, so to get this on a Mac you would need to use some kind of expansion card. The FireWire 4-pin (iLink) connector looks like this:
http://forums.macworld.com/servlet/JiveServlet/downloadImage/1139/firewire_4_pin.jpg

You mention having FireWire 800 on your iMac. The FireWire 800 connector is completely different than the FireWire 4-pin connector. It looks like this:
http://www.pcdoctor-guide.com/wordpress/images/firewire800pic1.jpg

Using FireWire 800, you will not be using the weird WD cable with FireWire 400 (6 pin) connector on one side and FireWire 4-pin connector/USB on the other. This weird cable is the only one that WD says you must use the one that came with the drive. So this "rule" from WD does not apply to you.

Trevor

[danborden]

OK. Got it now.
Thanks,
Dan

[PeaceOut]

Long story short, the passport studio boots up fine with USB, FW400, and FW800.

Macbook - USB and fw400. Doesn't have fw800.
Macbook Pro - USB. fw800 and fw400 (with unplug/plug method)

Read on for more info.

The fact that this drive could not boot from fw400/800 was an issue for me with the purchase of this drive.

I have a Macbook Pro (non-unibody) and I have backed-up using Carbon Copy Cloner. I connected the drive, turned on the machine and was able to boot using USB on the Macbook Pro. But not with fw400 or fw800. Which was strange.

So I tested on a Macbook. I connected the drive, turned on the machine and it booted using USB and Firewire 400!!! The Macbook does not have a fw800 port so no testing there.

This was interesting. I used the fw400 cable WD provided which is fw800 on one side and fw400 on the other. So it's using the same fw800 bus on the passport studio side. So maybe it's a Macbook Pro issue.

So I went back and tried fw400 on the Macbook Pro and it didn't work but I realized that when I'm on the selection screen to pick the harddrive I want to boot up in, the passport studio was not running. So I unplugged it and plugged it back in and low and behold, the drive appears and I can boot from it. I tested this with fw800 in the same way and it works also. This is great news because I was thinking of getting the LaCie Rugged, which is so bulky.

It's interesting that you can't boot up on the drive when you start the computer with the drive plugged in. It must be something to do with the fw ports on the Macbook Pro as it worked with the Macbook just fine.

Hope this helps. :D

[andyda]

This sounds like a problem I just had with my new MacBook. I erased the drive I was using as a clone for my old iBook, did a clone and tried to boot. No go! Then I remembered something I heard on Mac Geek Gab about Intel Mac's drives needing to be formatted differently than PowerPC. I checked, and sure enough, my drive was formated Mac OS Extended - Journaled. So I ran disk utility, re-partitioned (you can repartition with just one partition if you like) and under Options in the Partition settings, select the GUID partition table. I did it, ran another clone, and booted successfully.


You said your drive was formatted Mac OS Extended - Journaled. Well, if your iMac is a PowerPC that is the correct format for a boot drive, however, if it is an Intel Mac, then you need to use the GUID partition table method in order to boot. An Intel Mac can read a Mac OS Extended - Journaled disk, it just can't boot from it.

Check it out.

Andy

[DeltaMac]

I'll attempt to clear up the clarification from andyda's post.

A PPC Mac needs to boot from a drive that is partitioned with an Apple Partition table (APT)

An Intel Mac can also boot from an APT formatted drive, but the system installer will not install the system on an Intel Mac, unless the hard drive is partitioned with GUID partition table.

Either APT or GUID partition tables will end up with Mac OS Extended (journaled) partitions, which is the normal default.

[danborden]

Thanks to all for the replies. The drive is formatted with Mac OS Extended Journaled with the GUID partition map, so I don't think that's the problem. I'm out of the country for a bit and don't have access to FireWire to test PeaceOut's suggestion, but I will as soon as I get home in a couple of weeks.

Thanks again,
Dan

[danborden]

Hey PeaceOut,
I've been traveling for a while, and just got home to try your suggestion. I booted up my wife's MacBook with the Passport Studio connected via FireWire 400 and the option key pressed, and it did not come up as a startup disk, as was the case before. So I tried you suggestion. I started the computer without the Passport Studio connected, and with the option key pressed. I waited until her HD showed up as the only available startup disk, then I plugged the Passport Studio into the FireWire 400 port, and presto! it shows up as a startup drive. I suspect the same will be the case for FireWire 800. It's an odd quirk, but one I'm glad there is a workaround for. Thanks for posting your experience and solving my problem.
Dan

[PeaceOut]

Hey PeaceOut,
I've been traveling for a while, and just got home to try your suggestion. I booted up my wife's MacBook with the Passport Studio connected via FireWire 400 and the option key pressed, and it did not come up as a startup disk, as was the case before. So I tried you suggestion. I started the computer without the Passport Studio connected, and with the option key pressed. I waited until her HD showed up as the only available startup disk, then I plugged the Passport Studio into the FireWire 400 port, and presto! it shows up as a startup drive. I suspect the same will be the case for FireWire 800. It's an odd quirk, but one I'm glad there is a workaround for. Thanks for posting your experience and solving my problem.
Dan




Glad it worked for you.
It's an odd problem but as long as it works then it's all good.

Enjoy your Studio. Now to convert this from APT to GUID so i can use it with my Windows machine also. Don't think there's a work around this other than to format the whole drive again. :(

[Cheech'i]

I was under the impression that Intel macs do not power the firewire bus until OS X loads. Since USB2 uses less power than either 400 or 800, it is an energy saving method they employed to help lessen the blow for people used to very long battery life with (some of) the G4 notebooks.

[danborden]

Cheech'i
I hadn't heard that about Intel Macs. But the procedure I outlined definitely works, and of course, that means in this case power is supplied to the FireWire ports before OSX fully starts up.
Dan

[BanthaFodder]

I am having the same problem in that my new MyPassport Studio drive refuses to act as a boot disk.

I set it up correctly with the correct partition map (APM) and the disk can be seen once I boot to my internal disk.

However, as I have a PPC chipset I believe that it does not support USB connected boot disks so firewire is my only option. My WD MyBook is fine for this purpose but the MyPassport, if it does not support acting as a boot disk over firewire means it is useless to me as a backup disk and I am going to go ballistic at WD.

[danborden]

I don't have experience with the PPC chipset, but have you tried my method of restarting with the option key pressed, and waiting until the available boot drives (probably just your internal hard drive) appear before connecting your WD drive? When I did that on my Intel iMac with my WD Passport, it appeared as an available boot drive within a few seconds on connecting it.

Hope that helps.
Dan