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View Full Version : Big Trouble: Windows 2000 file server & Mac files disappearing


rboklewski
06-13-2006, 08:50 PM
Well i have upgraded from NT4 to Windows 2000 server.
We have about 13 macs that connect to this server and when they open files and go to save, the file disappears. OS X 10.3.9

The file is really there, but can't be seen by a mac user, only by the server or any other windows machine. Why these files disappear when they are opened up and being saved i have no idea.
It doesn't happen all the time, but the majority of the time. Very Annoying and i need help fast. Thanks, Bob.

Raven
06-14-2006, 09:58 AM
Could you state how the Mac users are connecting to your server ? AFP ? SMB ?
And does this issue seem to happen with all file types or specific ones ?
Did you check the permissions on the file once its on the server ? Just to make sure...

rboklewski
06-14-2006, 10:39 AM
hey could i call you
If so pm me your number

rboklewski
06-14-2006, 10:48 AM
Mac users go to the hard drive then to network and there is a folder that says PFW MAC SERVERS all the servers show up under this folder and they connect to the one file server we have. I think that is the Apple Talk Zone(PFW MAC SERVERS)

fat elvis
06-14-2006, 11:19 AM
That makes me think you're using AFP. AFP is the default connection protocol for servers from OS X.

If you're connecting via SMB it'd most likely be specified in the "Connect to Server" window. SMB connections are made in the following format: smb://server-name/share-name

You can try to connect via SMB and see if the problem is with the AFP services on the Windows Server. If you need help connecting via SMB, google it, or search the forums here for smb. Many SMB problems have been discussed and solved here.

Since AFP is not a native Windows protocol, there is a stong chance it was broken during the upgrade. In my experience SMB connections are slower, and painful to navigate (windows refreshing, changing dirs, saving files, etc.).

Raven
06-14-2006, 11:27 AM
Also I'm quite surprised that you don't have an issue with very long file serve names such as this one... In many occasions you can have trouble with Macs if the Windows server name is more than 13 characters... Yours is 15 characters long... as spaces a re included... Or if you could remove the spaces it may help as well. But thats not an issue if you have them connect via SMB, which I recommend as well since it means it connects to the Windows shares via a built-in Windows component rather than third party as its the case with AFP or AppleTalk (never use Apple talk on OSX or with Windows... its a pain and its there for legacy for old stuff... OSX doesn't realy use it).

rboklewski
06-14-2006, 11:32 AM
But my question is this, when i connect to smb the quark files show up as unix files and the .eps show up as postscript files.

Also, raven i pm'd you about the smb it was enabled and works on my machine, but when i went to configure i didn't specify the wins server or workgroup, it still works.

rboklewski
06-14-2006, 11:36 AM
how many characters can the filename be, maybe that is why its not letting me saving and its disappearing. I had a file named Project 1 is that too many?

rboklewski
06-14-2006, 11:38 AM
when i save a file and when it disappears, the outline of a file will show up with a weird file name like QXP.KAJFKADF.QXP and will disappear when i click on it.

rboklewski
06-14-2006, 11:43 AM
well that isn't it. I gave a file just one character E and it is doing the same thing wile saving.

Raven
06-14-2006, 11:47 AM
Ah... Are all the problems with Quark files ? I can't find the threads on this but I distinclty remember there being issue with Quark filoes over network... Are your users saving the files directly on the network (very bad habit) or saving them locally (smart and ideal way of doing this) and after that once the file is closed copy it to the network ?

rboklewski
06-14-2006, 11:57 AM
They save directly to the network, sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. Can you help me find the documentation on this. I can't find it anywhere

rboklewski
06-14-2006, 11:57 AM
Yeah it seems it is just with quark files, ill test the photoshop files though too.

fat elvis
06-14-2006, 12:10 PM
Hey Rob- MacWindows (http://www.macwindows.com/quark.html) is an excellent site which focuses on Macs and Windows playing well together. The link I posted is a search for Quark. Looks like the first hit has some useful info

HTH

Raven
06-14-2006, 12:12 PM
To start with have them do what they are supposed to do, aka that they should always save locally and once they are done with the file to upload it... Im sure this will resolve the issue and also reduce your network load considerably... and improve the speed at which they can save or work on their files (the larger a file gets, the more issues you will have)

Thanks fat_elvis for finding it ! I was sure it was in the forums here... but tryingto search for quark save and AFP comes up with anything networking really.
One thing to note about MacWindows, is be patient when searching... They tend to put way too much in each page which means you can easily miss articles that look like comments.

rboklewski
06-14-2006, 12:26 PM
Thanks for the posts guys...Now, i have about 13 editors and most of them aren't technically inclined, so saving locally and post will most likely cause them headaches, but i think it does work...Why it was working fine in NT4 i have no idea, one of the editors did say sometimes this would happen, but not nearly as bad as this. Also, SMB seems to save fine, but those damn quark files are not showing up like quark files and the same with the eps. I wish they would cause i would use it. Im gonna contact quark and keep this thread updated. Thanks Again for all your help, i really appreciate it. Bob.

rboklewski
06-14-2006, 01:27 PM
now with smb do i need to specify a wins server and workgroup, cause it just works for me????

rboklewski
06-14-2006, 01:28 PM
i go smb://10.185.10.54 and it connects

Raven
06-14-2006, 01:49 PM
No the WINS server is not required, but putting in the proper workgroup or domain name helps (less typing !) as it will auto-populate the smb authentication window for you.
Also, I checked the Quark site and coudn't find a trace about this... The explanations on the macwindows site seems to be the closest you'll get to a full answer.

rboklewski
06-14-2006, 01:53 PM
Yeah im thinking my only option here is to use SMB. Now i will have to copy the folders that contain the eps files into the smb share so they can be seen again as photoshop and illustrator files. The quark files that look like unix i can rename by adding a .QXD or QXP to it and it changes the icon to a normal Quark file. I just hope this all works out, but saving seems to work through SMB.

Raven
06-14-2006, 02:30 PM
Think of the positive side to this though... You'll only have one share space now for all users wether on Mac or PC... Simpler is better in this case no ?

rboklewski
06-14-2006, 03:07 PM
Weird, when i make a copy of a folder and pasting it in the same location i can see the file types stay the same when i view in SMB. But the same folder has file type issues when i connect to the server by going to hard drive - network- PFW MAC SERVERS-PRODUCTION SERVER-MAC SHARE

The problem is multiple people use the same quark document and i forgot to mention that, so copying and pasting back on the server won't work, because they would overwrite each other. If two people have two different copies and are making changes to two different documents then that is when problems occur. UGGGHHH, i still need to contact quark.

hayne
06-14-2006, 03:11 PM
The problem is multiple people use the same quark document and i forgot to mention that, so copying and pasting back on the server won't work, because they would overwrite each other. If two people have two different copies and are making changes to two different documents then that is when problems occur.

If multiple people are editing the same document and then re-saving it to the same file, you have problems far beyond anything to do with filesystems and sharing. You need to establish some work-flow procedures that will prevent this. E.g. have a convention that files are always saved with a new name that includes a version number and user name (so that no files will overwrite each other).

Raven
06-14-2006, 03:17 PM
Tha could indded be a problem... Normally through SMB it will lock the file if they work on it, but some times it may not properly "release" it afterwards and tell other useers that the resource is busy or something like that. Quark is not really network friendly because of the way it works (once again explained in the MacWindows link that fat_elvis posted) and ahven't seen any one get goo duspport on this from Quark as they just give them the same advice that is on the above mentionned site.

hum hum... add what hayne just posted as a very good work suggestion :)
(once again beaten to the finish line... I have to get used to using quick reply loll)

rboklewski
06-14-2006, 04:07 PM
I hear you, now im just worried about creating copies of the orginal folders to SMB share, because once i do that...POOOOF...They can't access the same folders through the original way they were connecting. That means if the transfer to the SMB share doesn't work im in deep trouble.

rboklewski
06-14-2006, 04:10 PM
Basically what im doing is opening up the file server by going to network in the hard drive. So i have that window open to my left, then i connect again to the same server and same share folder through SMB and put that to right of my screen. I then have to rename the folders i move, because obviously you can't have two of the same names on the same location. So im really hesitant on doing that cause once i rename it and copy it i have to delete the original folder in that location and the normal way they connect won't see the files right, but i can see everything again in SMB and saving in SMB seems to work.

rboklewski
06-14-2006, 04:52 PM
Need some reassurance this will work :)

Raven
06-14-2006, 06:20 PM
I would suggest you move the files directly on the server and not through the Mac... And what you can do so the users do not find the originals is to send a general email with the new procedure (or impliment a new script or what ever ,depends on your setup and the way you work), telling them that the server will become unavailable at x time so they have to disconnect from it by then and have data saved or they will lose it (or with Quark, it would get corrupted beyond repair actually most of the time), then at the specified time, check if users are connected to the AFP share, disconnect any that remained then tunr of the AFP service and SMB on the server (so users don't try to open a file in transfer or something). Move the files to the new SMB share on the server and then reactivate only SMB. At least thats how I'd do it. You can even call this server maintenance for the users ;)

rboklewski
06-14-2006, 06:41 PM
Okay im gonna need some more info about this. You say disconnect AFP service? And SMB service? Is SMB a service running on 2000? Also, When i connect through AFP and SMB it is the same share that is why i have to copy to my desktop then rename it and copy it back through the SMB share and the file types stick.

rboklewski
06-14-2006, 06:42 PM
But when i do the copy thing i the file types no longer show up correctly using the AFP method but are correct on the SMB side. Am i making sense hehe, i know this is confusing as hell and hard to explain.

Raven
06-14-2006, 09:51 PM
I understand very well what your trying to explain and yes it isd confusing at times... So I'll try to rephrase... Forget all the Macs and the PCs in the office... I want you only on the Win2K server... think of it as standalone machine for now... Disconnect the users from it ideally son no one can access the folders while you work on them... Then, on the Win2K server, rename the files, give them the right extensions, fix the whole thing ! lol Then, stop the AFP service (and make sure its not set to start with a server reboot) and only have users reconnect all through smb both PC and Mac.
Hope this is clearer.

:o Going to sleep now... too much geek work :o

rboklewski
06-14-2006, 09:59 PM
haha too much geek work, i like that. My windows users connect through windows networking and i just map the drives they need access too :)

rboklewski
06-14-2006, 10:00 PM
So you are saying that i don't need the macintosh services when the macs connect through SMB?

rboklewski
06-14-2006, 10:03 PM
Thanks again for all your help, i truly appreciate it and hope someone pays it forward to you :)

Raven
06-14-2006, 11:01 PM
Its just fun to help... And to answer, no you don't need Mac services toi run for SMB. If you have Mac users logging on as network users from the server then you would still need those. But I don't think your running networked users... are you ?

rboklewski
06-15-2006, 09:11 AM
Well they do log onto the network technically through SMB, they need to type in their active directory username and password. :) But they are not tied into active directory per say, since there machines are not tied to it. When they log into their machines it is a local logon.

rboklewski
06-15-2006, 09:14 AM
Now, these files where i have to change the extensions, i can't change them on the 2000 server because the server doesn't know what types of files they are. I will have to transfer from a mac.

rboklewski
06-19-2006, 11:11 AM
Took me 2 days, which came out to about 16 hours total to move the files for the second time to the SMB share folders. But since i moved them the quark files and everything else seems stable, so far so good. The only problem i came accross was when i was uploading files to the server it would crap out and i would receive a blue screen with the problem that resided in the macintosh services. The stop error i would get when the server crapped out when transferring was thesfmsrv.sys file. Now that im using SMB built into OSX i no longer needed the mac services installed, so i went ahead and stop the mac services and sure enough, no more server crapping out. Hope this helps somebody else out and i want to thank those on the forums that helped me out, BIG THANKS!