A couple of issues (Classic freeze/HD problem)

[QuickPuppy]

Hello all...

I posted this same message on the OSXFaq forums...figure the more people that see it, the more potential help...

I'm brand new to OS X so forgive me if there is an obvious answer to my problem. (Actually, there are a couple that may be related.)

First of all here is the system...OSX (10.1.5) and OS9.2 on a Quicksilver G4 dual 1GHz, 80 gig internal ide drive (split into a 40 gig OSX partition and a 40 gig OS9.2 partition), a 100gig internal ide for audio/video, and a Digidesign Protools 001 PCI audio card.

Here are the problems...

1) Occasionally on bootup (I don't think that it matters which OS), the hard drive will make a loud recurring clicking/clacking like, "I'm searching hard for something but can't find it" type of noise. (The drives are normally so quiet that I don't even hear them over the fan noise.) Sometimes after about 10-30 seconds of racket, the machine boots normally. Other times I get the Mac icon with a question mark (Can't find boot drive?) and have to press restart. It almost always boots up on the second attempt. About two months ago I reformatted the drive and the problem went away until about 3 weeks ago.

2) When booting into Classic mode (either from system preferances or from a program that automatically boots it) the computer begins to boot into Classic and then crashes with an "ApplePCI Address error--try rebooting while holding Shift to turn off extentions" (something to that effect) Rebooting w/ "shift" held does not appear to turn the extentions off and it crashes at the same spot and gives the same error. The "extension icon" that it seems to crash on is a lightbulb with a question mark in it. Ring a bell to anyone?

3) I've tried to run Drive10 on it but it tells me that the drive is read only, even though I'm booting from a clean OSX install on the separate audio drive. I believe that I was able to get it to work once and it failed all of the disk read/write tests but made no attempt to fix anything.

Any ideas?

That was posted yesterday...In the meantime two people have suggested that my HD is probably going to crash soon.

Last night:
I copied both OS partitons to my audio/video drive as a back-up. (That will work right? Does all of the authorizing for applications get copied when you copy an entire drive?) Just wondering if a crash were to occur if all of my stuff will open up as usual on the backup copy or will I need to reinstall some things from CD?

Called Apple and told them what was going on. They said to run the Hardware Test CD. I did and it found no problems using both the Quick and Extended tests. At this point they wanted a credit card number and I told them I'd try to find out more info on my own. It just doesn't seem fair that I just gave them $3500.00 four months ago and now they want more to help me solve the same problems I had back when the three month service contract was still good.

I'm still confused as to why Drive10 would tell me that the OSX disk is a read only disk. Nortons' doesn't seem to think it is.

I was able to turn off extensions from OS9.2 and then rebooted into OSX. (I couldn't get the extensions manager to work properly from the Classic boot up options in OSX.) Classic DID boot up after OSX reinstalled what ever extensions it needed to run in Classic mode. (It kept giving me "there are two copies of `x` extension, would you like to delete one?") So it appears that I have an extensions conflict, yes? Is there an easier way to find the culprit besides turning everything off (reboot) then back on again in small groups (reboot)? I've heard of a program called Conflict Catcher. Is that what that program does...finds extension conflicts? If so does it work well? There are SO many extensions to weed through!

Here's another question: the last time the disk was making all the racket, Apple had me reformat the drive. Is there a way to reinstall the OS' without having to go through all the the automatic registration/setup junk again?

While I'm here at work I left Norton Disk Doc running at home to check for problems. (Why does Norton's ALWAYS find bad creation/modification dates, and custom icon bit problems? I am constantly fixing those!

I can't seem to convince Apple that the drive is going bad. They seem to think that it's a software issue.

Is it possible that a software/extension conflict would cause a drive to make noise like this one is? If so, why would it not do the same thing everytime I boot up?

I think that I have two problems...a drive that may be on its way out (this problem is intermittent) and an extensions conflict (this problem is repeatable).

A-

[Phil St. Romain]

QP, I'm not sure what to make of all this, but if you're game for a reformatting/reinstalling, yes, you can get out of the registration phase of the set-up process by using Command-Q. You have to give your computer a name, password, and set up a few preferences first, however.

Sorry I can't be of more help for now. Maybe someone else has some "next step" suggestions for you.

[QuickPuppy]

Thanks for trying! I'm really trying to avoid reformatting for the third time!! Here's some more info...

Ok...ran Disk Doc on all drives and found only the usual bad backup/modification dates junk. I fixed all that then optimized the OSX partition which had moderate fragmentation and the let the 100gig audio/video drive optimize overnight (it was severely fraged). This morning when I booted up from OS9.2, I got the same clacking drive and mac icon w/ the question mark. The system finally booted up but the drive continued to make a racket. When boot up completed, my two OS drives were on the desktop but my audio/video drive was not. I ran system profiler and it did not see the drive at all. I restarted the computer and everything then came up like it was supposed to. I ran DiskDoctor again and it found more bad backup/modification dates/bundle bits. How do these go bad by themselves overnight!!??

Could a drive that is NOT booting the computer cause the mac icon w/ the question mark? It is starting to appear that the drive problem may be with the Western Digital 100gig drive. I'll call them today...

Does this sound right to anyone?

[Craig R. Arko]

The blinking question mark means Open Firmware can't find the boot device you set in 'Startup Disk.' It will keep searching (and blinking) until it finds something to boot from.

The clattering noise is certainly a common symptom of impending disk failure; not an absolute, but enough you should be making a full backup of the device.

As far as which drive it is, open up the machine and listen to the drives when you turn it on; you should be able to tell which one is making the noise.

[QuickPuppy]

I tried to narrow it down to which drive it is by doing exactly what you suggested. Unfortunately, since the drives are stacked on top of each other, I can't tell by listening--it could be either one. I can't feel a vibration either. Would it hurt anything to pull the power lead from one of them while the clacking is going on? If it stops when power is pulled then I've found the drive.

Again I ask, "Can a problem with a non-booting drive cause the booting drive to have problems?" (ie the blicking question mark)

Thanks for the info...

[Craig R. Arko]

I would power the machine down first, disconnect the second (non-boot) drive's power, and restart. You may also need to pull the IDE cable, depending on how fussy the the drive controller is.

[QuickPuppy]

The reason I asked about pulling it while it is on is because the clacking is intermittent...thus the only way to be sure that I get the right drive is to try to get it to stop while it is making the noise. I may try taking the drives out of their mounts so I can get them separated. Then I'd be able to listen to each one by itself.

[QuickPuppy]

The noise is definately coming from the 100gig A/V drive. Western Digital is shipping me a new one. So that leaves just the extensions problem. Ideas anyone?