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dl1fy
12-15-2005, 06:53 AM
Now I got a brand new 1GB USB 2.0 Memory Stick and wanted to transfer some large CD images from my workplace to home and vice versa.
I am using this stick with three different OSes. That are Win XP, Linux SuSE 9.3 (kernel 2.6.11.4) and with Mac OS X 10.4.3 on my Powerbook G4 (aluminium).
The stick was formatted in FAT 16 from the manufacturer. Everything worked fine copying files on it and reading from it on XP and Linux. Now problems at all and very fast too.

I was quite astonished to see a problem on the Mac as I tried to copy a 700MB image from the stick. After about half the file a message box pops up and tells me that it couldn't read a portion of the file. The error code returned was -36 and the copy process failed.

WOW! My Mac can't dig that? I started some tests to find out more about the problem. So I deleted the file on the stick and copied another image from the Mac to the stick. Again this file had a size of about 700MB. Writing to the stick worked fine and now I tried to copy it back from the stick to my Mac desktop. Guess what? It failed again at about half the file. Error was the same.

Now I formatted the stick to FAT32 on the Mac. Worked fine. And tried all of the above again with exactly the same behaviour. I always checked with Linux to see that it works there.

Finally I tried to take two image of 350megs in size and copy them to the stick and reread them back from it. You won't believe it.... this time it worked. So it seems, the problem is with the file size of the images.

Anyone else has experienced this problem and even better.... might have a solution for it????

Bye,
Torsten.

tlarkin
12-15-2005, 10:29 AM
I am confused by your post, so after you formatted it as FAT32 it worked fine, or did you have the same problem?

I am going to guess it may be a swap file issue with OS X, but I will need further info to make a better guess.

TrumpetPower!
12-15-2005, 11:45 AM
To test this, I created a 1 Gbyte FAT32 disk image with:

hdiutil create -fs MS-DOS -size 1g test

I then created a 700 Mbyte file:

dd if=/dev/zero bs=1m count=700 of=foo

That file has an MD5 sum of 7fe5ca2a051d6dbb9ef191fbee0af98c

I then, via the Finder, mounted the image and dragged the file to the mounted image; the file copied just fine. I then dragged the file to the Desktop, where it again copied without trouble. The MD5 sum of the copy matched that of the original.

The only Apple thing I didn't exercise with this test is, obviously, the USB generic mass storage device driver (and associated hardware, etc.). While it's conceivable that the problem lies there, I'd bet a whole heck of a lot more than lunch that you've simply got a bad memory stick.

It's worth noting that hardware that works fine on one system can fail on another; this can be for a variety of reasons. For example, it could be that Linux traps the hardware error that the memory stick is generating and attempts to work around it by treating the error as a bad block. The Mac might simply decide that the hardware is failing and refuse to complete the copy.

Mind you, that's pure speculation on my part. And, neither approach is ``better'' than the other. On the one hand, the supposed-Linux option sounds attractive: your device still works. On the other, it sounds downright frightening: it just masks the symptoms. Who knows when the rest of the thing is going to go bad?

You might check the appropriate system log file under Linux to see if there're any warning messages after writing the file. If there are, then you know for certain. Even if there aren't...I'd still take the thing back for an exchange / refund.

Cheers,

b&

dl1fy
12-16-2005, 05:08 AM
I am confused by your post, so after you formatted it as FAT32 it worked fine, or did you have the same problem?

I am going to guess it may be a swap file issue with OS X, but I will need further info to make a better guess.

Sorry for not being completely clear on that issue. What "worked fine" was the formatting process itself. After that I experienced the exact same behavior like before, meaning I had all the same problems again. So still the 700MB file couldn't be copied from the stick.
Meanwhile I bought an additional stick from a different brand and I don't have any problems with this stick. Regardless if I'm using it under XP, Mac OS or Linux.
Yesterday I also experienced this strange problem on Win XP, which reports an I/O error at about half way of a 700MB file.
So I my best guess is that this device is just broken in some way and that the USB Linux drivers are just a bit more fault tolerant than others, because Linux still is the only OS that is working just fine with this stick.
I'm about to be getting an exchange for the broken stick in some days and will report if the new one will be working or not .....

jokerlaughsatyou
12-17-2005, 11:57 AM
I am glad to hear you are having this problem.... I mean to say, I thought i was the only one, and I was going insane.

I just started a thread on a similar problem i am having. Basically the same thing, but it applies to my Iriver 20gb and a boxed laptop hdd i have.
I think it has to do with the EHCI ( High speed USB) drivers apple has.
I never had this problem with os 10.3, but then i didnt have the Iriver either. Same as you, I know that the Iriver works great on Windoze and Linux ( i run a version of BSD) I am curious ( but wont have time to test this for awhile) if it would happen with HFS+ disks.

this actually happened to me with an Ipod formatted for windoze, and a third party USB 2 pci card, but it was the first time i saw it, and figured it must be the pci card. good luck, I am eagerly awaiting answers
Jokerlaughsatyou

trevor
12-17-2005, 01:38 PM
I never had this problem with os 10.3, but then i didnt have the Iriver either.

dl1fy has reported that his or her problem was specific to a single USB flash drive, and was not an overall problem with Mac OS X (or Windows, for that matter). This is consistent with what I've seen--the firmware on some specific USB flash drives is not compliant with the USB mass storage class.

Therefore, the complaint should go to the company selling the USB devices, not to Apple. In your case, it sounds like the non-class compliant firmware is on your iRiver.

Trevor

jokerlaughsatyou
12-17-2005, 06:27 PM
So, any ideas what can be done? I will send an angry email to creative, but practically, is there any way to get this thing to work? also, if windows and linux can use it, why is the mac so picky?

trevor
12-18-2005, 09:10 AM
I don't know the answer to that question--it would involve extreme arcana regarding the USB Mass Storage Driver class that only a few people at Apple and a few people programming firmware in various companies know.

I can guess it may have to do with increased reliability, or something like that, but when it comes right down to it, the firmware either does it right, or it doesn't. And it appears that your Creative USB flash drive doesn't do it right.

Trevor

jokerlaughsatyou
12-18-2005, 11:11 AM
But there must be something that can be done. I beleive when it comes down to it, this is a problem that apple needs to fix. If Creative and a few other drive makers have outdated firmware, but everyone else can use it, then macs need to be able to use it too. I like macs precisley becasue you usually dont have to worry abotu this stuff. Apple needs to be at least as compatable as WinXP if it wants to be taken seriously. In all honesty, I love macs, but if i cant use the same hardware as everyone else, a clean stable interface isnt going to be worth that much. there must be a fix for this. Apple should use the unix drivers that work!!! that wouldnt be so hard would it? anyways, any ideas for a work around?

hayne
12-18-2005, 11:24 AM
this is a problem that apple needs to fix. If Creative and a few other drive makers have outdated firmware, but everyone else can use it, then macs need to be able to use it too.
There is a possibility that future Intel-based OS X machines might be able to use the drivers provided for other hardware. Not for sure - just a possibility.

But current Macs have a completely different processor with quite different characteristics. Hardware usually needs software/drivers to make it work and this software needs to be designed to run in the environment (processor etc) of the host machine. If the hardware adheres to published standards, then Apple can write standardized drivers that will work for all such devices. But non-standard drivers need to be written by the hardware manufacturer. If they don't care enough about the Mac market to supply a driver, then the hardware is useless on the Mac. If there are bugs in the driver they supply, those bugs must be fixed by the developer of that software - i.e. the hardware manufacturer.

trevor
12-18-2005, 07:40 PM
But there must be something that can be done. I beleive when it comes down to it, this is a problem that apple needs to fix. If Creative and a few other drive makers have outdated firmware, but everyone else can use it, then macs need to be able to use it too. I like macs precisley becasue you usually dont have to worry abotu this stuff. Apple needs to be at least as compatable as WinXP if it wants to be taken seriously. In all honesty, I love macs, but if i cant use the same hardware as everyone else, a clean stable interface isnt going to be worth that much. there must be a fix for this. Apple should use the unix drivers that work!!! that wouldnt be so hard would it? anyways, any ideas for a work around? You are not understanding. There is a published spec for USB mass storage devices. If a company wants to make a USB mass storage device, they can either follow this spec, in which case no additional driver is needed (since the USB mass storage class driver is built into OS X, and Windows, and many Linux distros), or they can choose to not follow the spec, and then their device needs a custom driver. Either way is perfectly acceptable.

OR, they can do it wrong, in which case they sort of follow the spec, but not exactly. Or they think they follow the spec, but because they don't understand it, they don't. This is the fault of the company making the device, and nobody else's. It's a bug. You can complain about Apple until you are blue in the face, but Apple is following the spec, Creative is not. Whose fault do you really think that is?

Trevor

jokerlaughsatyou
12-18-2005, 10:45 PM
even if creative poorly understood the standard, and made a second rate device, It seems to me, if everyone elses OS can read the device driver free, than os x should be able to do the same.
Even though the device is flawed, it is usable on every computer but a mac. That seems to me to be a mac prob.

hayne
12-18-2005, 11:36 PM
Even though the device is flawed, it is usable on every computer but a mac. That seems to me to be a mac prob.
Sorry - but that is like saying that if a web site doesn't follow the standards and thus doesn't display properly on Safari, then it is a Safari problem.
No - it is better to follow the standards and to show up those devices/web sites that are non-comforming.

tlarkin
12-19-2005, 08:30 AM
is this usb drive also a MP3 player?

chris_startx
01-28-2007, 06:23 PM
Hello everybody.
I ran across this topic by googling to find some answer for my problem.

Until recently I had an SD card, Rocketfish 166x 2GB, that I used to install Knoppix Linux on. Actually I'm doing a remaster on Knoppix 4.0.2 CD, and I was copying the files on CD, among them a 700MB file with the compressed filesystem. Everything worked like a charm, until I managed to drop the card on the floor. I have no carpet, and it fell on hardwood. It cracked and it kept cracking until it never worked anymore.

So I bought another one, with some special discount. It's a GXT 133x 2GB. Well, this one is weird. Doing the same thing, that is copying the 700MB file on an ext2 partition, the big file, seems to be corrupted or something, because I get an Input/Output error when I try to do a md5sum or copy it off the card.
I don't know what to believe, but I suspect either some Windoze conspiracy against using hardware in Linux, or just a defective card.

I know this is not Mac related, but I thought I'd post here, since I found this topic on this forum

chris_startx
01-28-2007, 10:00 PM
Ok people, I found the answer.

I first copied in Linux all the small files. Then I rebooted in Windoze and I copied the big file onto the ext2 partition on the SD card. I was able to do that because I have an ext2 system driver for Windoze. This time it worked. I was able to boot my computer in Knoppix from the SD card with no errors. Also I did the md5sum on the files on the SD card, and they all verified against the checksums of the files on the original Knoppix CD.

So it's what I feared, even not the most: the global conspiracy of Micro***** et Windoze Inc. against the free world: manufacturers of USB devices found some way of making devices that would only work under Windoze. So beware of GXT USB devices if you're about to buy some to use in Linux or anything else than Windblows. It's a BJ. May God keep us safe from THEM...

Craig R. Arko
01-28-2007, 10:04 PM
Yes, this is a Mac forum. Let's try to remember that.