Some Windows Users are mistaken... [Archive]

baryonyx

08-07-2002, 12:42 PM

OS X 10.1.5 can NOT do everything XP can do out of the box, unfortunately. One of the grooviest features of XP in my opinion, is its ability to share a dialup PPP connection with other computers over a network. OS X simply can't do it without 3rd-party software.

I understand, however, that Jaguar can do this nifty trick.

XP also has a great feature that I wish OS X had: Filmstrip view. Load a folder with a bunch of photos from your digital camera, select "Filmstrip" from XP's folder views icon and a largish image of whatever photo you're selecting appears. This is sort of like iPhoto without having to launch it. OS X should have something like this--it's a fab feature.

Andy

nkuvu

08-07-2002, 01:14 PM

Share a dial up connection? How often is that actually utilized? Dial up is slow enough for one person, I'd hate to see it split for two (or more).

Filmstrip sounds a lot like the preview in Column view in OS X. I haven't seen it, so I can't be sure. But if it is, OS X has it beat because the preview isn't limited to photos -- OS X also previews text files, PDF files, movies, etc.

Not saying either OS is better (but the name of the MacOSXHints forum should be an indication of which I personally prefer). I think it's just comparing personal opinions for the most part.

baryonyx

08-07-2002, 02:33 PM

I use the PPP Dialup sharing feature every single day. Like many people, I don't have access to any kind of broadband connection. I am forced to use dialup, so this feature comes in very handy. Yes, dialup is slow. But since I don't have any alternatives, I can't do anything about that. I'll bet I'm not alone.

Anyway, think about this: when two--or even more--people are surfing, what are they really doing? Basically they're downloading pages and reading them, usually at different times. With that kind of use there's absolutely no slowdown. Now, utilize that same behavior while downloading a large file and it does bog down; but it's still better than the alternative, which is my wife and I fighting over who gets to use the computer. Dialup PPP sharing is a great feature.

And the Preview pane in OS X is a poor cousin to the much better thought-out way XP displays images in folders. With XP you see a row of fairly large thumbnails at the bottom of the window. Move your mouse over any one of them and that image displays much larger above the "strip." Even better, any folder containing only image files can be viewed with small thumbnails of the first four photos contained in the folder pasted on the folder itself. It's a fabulous, visual, way of determining what's in that folder without having to open it. Apple should steal this feature and expand on it--it is just awesome.

Andy

nkuvu

08-07-2002, 02:39 PM

Like I said, I haven't seen the Filmstrip, so my comments on it really aren't worth reading. ;)

Personally, when I'm using my dialup connection I am using it to its fullest, all on my own. I use Mozilla to have multiple tabs open, and there's almost always a page loading in the background. I can see how you may want to share the dial up connection in your situation, but I don't see it as common enough to make it a real issue with OS X.

Just my two copper plated zinc bits.

baryonyx

08-07-2002, 03:17 PM

Well, I think the point was that there's some things that XP does that OS X does not. Sharing a dialup PPP connection from my XP box with my three Macs is a pretty big deal over here.

But let's be fair. There's stuff OS X does that XP can't touch. We'll start with iMovie and move on with the most basic interface issues like, say, initiating a dialup PPP session.

Movie Maker sucks, pure and simple. There's just no comparison between it and iMovie. It's slow and counter-intuitive. iMovie just blows it away.

Initiating a PPP dialup session is as simple as selecting it from the Menu bar in OS X--that is, once you've checked on the option for it in Internet Connect. First setting up, then starting the PPP session in XP is a chore by comparison.

Andy

nkuvu

08-07-2002, 03:59 PM

Hee hee, this reminds me of the macboy parody of a switch ad with Mr Gates.

Mac OS X can do everything that XP can do... except crash

:)

Morpheus

08-07-2002, 07:13 PM

Im going to agree with nkuvu. Because he is absolutely right about the PPP 56k Sharing being a big enough issue to make XP on top. No one wants to share 56k. Even if you were forced to, there just isint enough people out there to do it, you have to see that the world is gradually moving to broadband more and more.
I personally think OSX will be the future OS for most computer users....XP's silly little features like film strip isint that great. If Mac users demand something like this then maybe Apple will consider adding the feature. But really face it, OSX is just the better OS:D

baryonyx

08-07-2002, 07:44 PM

Morpheus, you are comitting a few logical errors here. Allow me to clarify my position a tad further by responding to some of your points:

Because he is absolutely right about the PPP 56k Sharing being a big enough issue to make XP on top.

First off, what evidence do you have that the PPP 56K sharing issue isn't a big deal? It's a great feature that I, for one, rely upon every day. Secondly, the point of this isn't which OS is necessarily better; someone said OS X has the same features that XP does and I provided two examples of why that is not true.

there just isint enough people out there to do it, you have to see that the world is gradually moving to broadband more and more.

The world is indeed moving to broadband. Personally, I can't wait. But I believe there are enough people out there--people like me, who don't have the cable infrastructure in place and/or are too far away from the phone company for DSL--who don't have broadband access that a feature like 56K PPP sharing comes in very handy. You can't disregard an entire population of users just because they don't fit your particular world view.

I personally think OSX will be the future OS for most computer users....XP's silly little features like film strip isint that great.

Again, we could discuss the merits of this feature all night--I personally love it--but I brought it up to illustrate a feature in XP that isn't in OS X.

If Mac users demand something like this then maybe Apple will consider adding the feature. But really face it, OSX is just the better OS

I agree wholeheartedly. But for different reasons.

Andy

sbur

08-07-2002, 08:10 PM

There are 5 people in out house (my wife and I along with three other grad students) sharing one phone line. No broadband. PPP sharing would be great. (Just to add another voice.) The world may be moving toward broadband, but the telecoms can attest to the fact that it isn't happening very quickly. And it isn't available in a lot of places.

Also, OS X doesn't do virtual desktops (or multiple logins or whatever you want to call it). XP does. This is nice when you (as admin) want access to files in another persons folder (from iTumes or iPhoto, for example) but can't get in because you aren't logged in as root. This actually happens a lot with my wife and I...

vickishome

08-07-2002, 09:15 PM

Well, there is one thing that Windows undisputably has over Mac OS X. Viruses. And as far as I'm concerned, they can have them!

My husband was up late again last night, removing Bongo-Buddy (or whatever it was called) and W32.Yaha.F@mm. Last week it was some "happy virus". The week before, two of the PCs had Bongo-Buddy. He was scanning and scanning our 3 PCs for hours while I was happily enjoying my Macs. :)

The problem is my husband has allowed our children use his computer to play online games. I know Bongo-Buddy and the "happy virus" can be received just by viewing a webpage. I have no idea how that other one got on his computer. He's disabled downloads before to help prevent it, but I suspect he forgot to disable it when he let my daughter use the computer. Our daughter's email is strickly web-based so I can't imagine how one of her emails could have given him a virus. He uses NAV and keeps his definitions updated, but that's not enough to prevent the viruses. Sadly, he has no choice but to password protect his computer and tell our daughters they can no longer use it.

And there's one other thing I don't have since I don't run XP. I don't have to call Daddy Gates and ask, "Daddy, may I?" every time I make a change to my computer. ;)

It's funny because one of the things people didn't like about the early Macs is that you couldn't make changes yourself. You had to take your Mac to the shop so they could use the "special tool" to open it. PC lovers praised themselves for being able to open the box and do what they wanted without having anyone looking over their shoulder. Now, it's a decade later, and, oh my, just look at how that's changed.

There are a couple of things I've seen Windows computers do that I've thought were cooler than Macs (sorry, I can't remember them), but they don't even come close in numbers to the things my Macs can do that the Windows computers can't. Each OS will have some good features and some bad features, but when you look at the total of it all, Mac OS X beats them all, without question.

nkuvu

08-07-2002, 09:24 PM

I just wanted to clarify my position -- I have never heard of anyone sharing a dialup connection, but I can definitely imagine why someone would want to do so.

I moved at the beginning of June, and now I am able to get DSL, and I wasn't able to before this. I could have gotten cable or wireless broadband, but at the time both would cost about $300 just to get set up (hardware, installation fees, etc).* Then $50 per month. I couldn't afford that, and I fully sympathize with anyone else who can't. Or worse, people who could afford it but it's not available. I consider myself to be very lucky in that regard.

I really didn't want this to become a "my OS is better than yours" discussion. I think baryonyx made a good point, and I agree 100% that the point is not about which OS is better. Windows has things that OS X does not. OS X has things that Windows does not. Which is better is really a matter of opinion. :)

But like I have already said, I think my opinions are pretty clear just by being here.

* Note: There are a number of broadband companies offering free hardware and free installation with a contract. Earthlink even offers the first month for free.

gmleeii

08-07-2002, 10:16 PM

Hey sbur, my wife and I share a tibook and it never fails that when I am logged in she wants to look at something. Instead of logging out and back in I just go to the terminal and log in as root and look at whatever it is. It it is just text I use vi but you use the open command to open a file so that it comes up in the Finder.

Just a thought.

gmleeii

mervTormel

08-07-2002, 11:37 PM

Originally posted by sbur
There are 5 people in out house (my wife and I along with three other grad students)...
more than two in an out house around here is a very private affair :D

AKcrab

08-07-2002, 11:44 PM

And I thought the only out houses left in the world were in Alaska. Go figure.

:D

sbur

08-08-2002, 06:23 AM

Merv: 5 in the house sounds more exciting than it really is. While I can't complain too much, I'm ready for my wife to graduate so we can move on and regain our privacy.

gmleeii: That only works if the other person doesn't need the GUI and/or is unix literate. My wife knows the basic idea of what unix is, but has never needed to use the terminal side of things...and never wants to. I'm the wanna-be unix geek...though I will say that it would still be easier if there were virtual desktops.

I've used XP a couple of times, and I like it a lot more than any of the previous incarnations of the windows train wreck. It wouldn't bother me to use it on a daily basis. The unix side of OS X is what kept me loyal. I was really thinking about switching to the dark side before I played with OS X on a friends computer. So I think the "Windoz sux" mantra is no longer as valid as it used to be. I just like having unix and a "mainstream" OS booted at the same time.

baryonyx

08-08-2002, 09:50 AM

Personally, I don't see what's not to like about XP from a user perspective. It's more of the Mac than any other incarnation of Windows yet. It still can't touch OS X for its beauty and consistency. Now if Apple can just get the Open/Save dialogs right...

Anyway, the question of who's got the PPP sharing will be moot in a couple of weeks--Jaguar has it, from what I understand.

Andy

bakaDeshi

08-08-2002, 10:29 AM

FYI

http://www.osdir.com/projects/space

not from apple, not plugging, haven't tried it, just saw it today. If you couldn't tell, that's a DISCLAIMER. okay, I'll shut up now.

out house?? :p

Does the Registry count as a feature?;)

scowls

08-08-2002, 02:12 PM

Pardon me for being a rube (I've gotten slammed for that elsewhere), but is the PPP sharing limited to a dial-up modem? Can you use it with a DSL line or wireless hookup? I have a wireless card in my iMac and would love to be able to share the connection with my Wintel that I bring home from the office. Would the feature described here work for that as well?

As for the preview feature, OS X's version could use a little spiffing up, for example allowing you to preview at higher resolutions like you can in Windows 2000. In general I loathe Win 2000, but that is one feature that I do like.

nkuvu

08-08-2002, 02:41 PM

You may want to look into the Airport Software Base Station Tutorial (http://www.versiontracker.com/moreinfo.fcgi?id=13335&db=mac).

That allows you to share an internet connection with another computer via the AirPort. So I doubt it would work if your iMac is using the AirPort for its internet connectivity. And I would think you'd be able to use a Wintel box with the sharing, but I'm not sure.

I haven't tried this with DSL, I tried it with a dialup connection. I couldn't get it to work, but I've heard others say it works great. *shrug*

Just an option.

Phil St. Romain

08-08-2002, 03:11 PM

Five macs in our home, which are networked, and used to be able to share a dial-up connection even in OS 9 using one of the Macsense routers, I forget which one, connected to an external modem (56 kbp). The first one that needed to dial-up would initiate the connection; anyone else joining in would share the bandwidth, but the router did a great job of "taking turns."

One of our many Kansas thunderstorms blew out the modem and router.

Oh happy day! :)

We discontinued the second phone line and got cable broadband for only an extra $10 a month over what we were paying for the phone. It all works great.

--------

I agree with Andy that XP is the nicest, most Mac-like version of Windows yet. Windows has had a decisive edge on Open/Save dialogue options since 95. Action Menus was a great help for Mac users in OS 9, and Default Folder beefs things up in 9 and X.

baryonyx

08-08-2002, 03:11 PM

Scowls, the best thing to do with a broadband connection like cable or DSL is to get a router. A router gives you at least two benefits: a firewall that will distribute your bandwidth to other nodes on your network.

I took an old IIcx and put a IIci motherboard and a couple of ethernet cards I bought cheap on eBay in it (you should have seen me drilling out the extra hole in the back to accommodate the video port) and loaded a copy of FreeBSD on it (total cost: about $35), but you can go to Linksys (http://www.linksys.com/) (or somebody else) and buy one of their routers.

Now, some of you may be asking what's a guy who can't get broadband doing with a router? Excellent question! I'm still asking my cable company that 18 months after they erroneously sold me a cable modem for a service that didn't exist in my area. Aren't they something?

And scowls, I doubt very much you will ever be slammed for being a rube here. Lotta nice folks here who only want to help.

Andy

scowls

08-08-2002, 04:25 PM

Thanks for the suggestion, Andy, but that won't quite do it.

Here's my setup in case you have ideas:
I have an airport card in my iMac
I do not have a wireless card for my PC (though ultimately this may be the best answer)
I do not have an airport station - I get my signal directly from a nearby cell
I plan on trying to connect the two machines via ethernet (haven't yet gotten a cross-over cable to verify this works)

I'm hoping to tap into the internet via the hoped-for ethernet connection between the two machines, and the comment about PPP sharing made me hopeful this could be done. (Lots of hoping here...)

baryonyx

08-08-2002, 05:30 PM

Scowls, here's what you need:

1) An ethernet hub. These guys are pretty cheap--get an 8-port hub--under $50, for 10-base T (the slowest, but good enough for most home use)

2) Some category-5 Ethernet cabling. You can pick this up at Staples or pop on over to Belkin (http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatSectionView.process?Section_Id=4) .

3) A router, as I mentioned before. Really, this is the ideal cheap solution if you're not going wireless. It's easy to set up--just connect the cables to the hub and your Macs--and pretty much maintenance free.

I have this exact setup in my home studio and it's just perfect. The best thing about buying the 8-port hub is that you can expand later on. You can plug a router into it, or simply your cable or DSL modem while using your OS X box as a firewall.

Personally, I'm a big fan of dedicated machines doing one thing well. It's why I use a fax machine instead of a computer and why I have a router at the ready if I ever get broadband (which seems impossible since I'm depending on Cablevision--the same clowns who own the Knicks). I think it may be possible to use your Mac OS X box as a DHL router, but a guy like Merv would know better than I.

Andy

baryonyx

08-08-2002, 05:42 PM

Whoops--scowls, I just re-read your post and I think I'm mistaken about your Internet connection.

I can't help you with tapping into the wireless connection--dont know the first thing about it.

Do you at least have a dialup account? If so, then the router is unnecessary. You can use Mac OS X 10.2 to distribute your PPP bandwidth with your PC--but you'll need the rest of the setup above to make it work.

Or, if you have XP on your PC you can use it to distribute any PPP bandwidth to your Mac. It's not vey intuitive to set up, but it works like a charm.

Sorry if I misunderstood (maybe I still do).

Andy

baryonyx

08-08-2002, 06:01 PM

Phil, you're as bad as me! I have six Macs and a PC sitting in my studio (Mac IIci, Power100, G3 233, Wallstreet Powerbook, G4 DP 450 and this Gateway that wasn't as good a deal as I thought).

All but the Power100 are networked, and four of the five that are can share the dialup connection with/through the PC.

This is the thing about Macs: they just don't wear out. There's always a use for one! The Mac IIci is a BSD-based router now and the only reason I don't have that Power100 going is I ran out of room for it. If I had the space, I'd buy a cheap monitor for it and get it going--I'm sure someone would use it for something.

Andy

DavidRavenMoon

08-16-2002, 12:35 AM

Originally posted by baryonyx
XP also has a great feature that I wish OS X had: Filmstrip view. Load a folder with a bunch of photos from your digital camera, select "Filmstrip" from XP's folder views icon and a largish image of whatever photo you're selecting appears. This is sort of like iPhoto without having to launch it. OS X should have something like this--it's a fab feature.

What I do is make previews either using Pic2Icon, or GraphicConverter. Then for that folder, set the view options to "This Window Only" - "Keep Arranged By Name" and I crank the icon size all the way up.

If you put all your picts in that folder you have instant previews of a folder of picts.

vickishome

08-16-2002, 06:24 AM

I like the pic previews, but I don't like the extra disk space they take up.

I also have problems figuring out what causes some pics to not create a preview. When I look at a group of pictures I uploaded from my camera -- all pics taken at the same time with the same settings -- some will have previews and some will not. However, if I do GetInfo and look at the preview there, all of the pics will have previews. The inconsistency of the previews is quite frustrating.

DavidRavenMoon

08-16-2002, 11:21 AM

Originally posted by vickishome
I also have problems figuring out what causes some pics to not create a preview. When I look at a group of pictures I uploaded from my camera -- all pics taken at the same time with the same settings -- some will have previews and some will not. However, if I do GetInfo and look at the preview there, all of the pics will have previews. The inconsistency of the previews is quite frustrating.

I notice that sometimes the Finder doesn't update previews, or icons. When that happens I make an empty folder and drag the files into it... that forces the Finder to redraw the icons. Hope they fixed that in Jaguar! :)

xchanyazy

08-16-2002, 11:39 AM

A note about sharing dial-up in X:
It is built-in, it's just not easily accessible. I've had to move back with my parents (who live in a broadbandless area) for a couple of weeks (stupid lease nonsense, but that's a different story) and have had to share dial-up with my little brothers computer. All you have to do is set up NAT (easiest way - download sustworks IP Net Share), then hook up the two computers to an ethernet hub. I think it took me about 5 minutes to figure out.

It would be nice to just click a button, though.

griffeymac

08-16-2002, 03:02 PM

I'm one of those poor souls that live in a rural area and can't get broadband. While I don't ever share a modem connection, I can definitely see why someone would want to. As long as one of the people isn't hogging the limited bandwidth downloading huge files, I can imagine that the slowdown isn't that bad for normal email and browser use.

Also, as an XP owner and user, I wanted to clarify a point about having to re-register with Microsoft after making hardware changes. You have to change SEVERAL things in order for that to happen, and it is there so that you can't install XP on a hard drive and then move it to another computer. I've taken out a CD drive and replaced it with a DVD drive, added a CDRW, added RAM, etc., and had no problems. Now when I get around to yanking my current motherboard and putting one in with a 533FSB and a 2.53 GHz Processor.... :cool:

G.--

baryonyx

08-16-2002, 03:16 PM

What I do is make previews either using Pic2Icon, or GraphicConverter. Then for that folder, set the view options to "This Window Only" - "Keep Arranged By Name" and I crank the icon size all the way up.

That's a lot of work. I'd prefer just to click a button or something. XP does this right, right down to the custom folder icon with the first four pix pasted on the folder. I think Apple could take a feature like this and just run with it.