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Steve theHerring
05-21-2005, 03:32 PM
Anyone heard anyting about any release of Power Book G5s?
I know Apple is recalling batteries for the G4s so maybe they're having problems with G5s?

Anyone? Bueller...Bueller...Bueller...?

Photek
05-21-2005, 03:49 PM
I have been waiting for a PB G5 for about a year now! but not even the mac rumor sites have even a wiff of anything. I suspect it might be October to December before we see any. Most people think that apple are having a hard time with the balancing act between a cool running 8 inch thick laptop or a 1 inch oven!

as soon as they are released my G4 PB is going on ebay to fund a G5!

Photek
05-21-2005, 03:53 PM
found this on Macosrumors!

"Apple's first quad-processor Mac won't be a PowerMac, or an Xserve; it will be an all-new product line, the long-rumored "Xstation" according to sources. Dual-processor Powerbooks and other dual-processor Macs will follow the introduction of this new machine which could come as soon as Apple's World Wide Developer's Conference early next month."

might be a long wait for a G5PB

yellow
05-21-2005, 04:01 PM
I'd say it'll be forever.. They have to solve serious heat issues in the G5 chip first.

slacker
05-21-2005, 07:19 PM
Agree, even if fuel cells replace batteries in laptops the next few years they will still have to solve the thermal management problems. Was at a meeting at HP Labs about two years ago and one of the research projects they were working on was liquid cooling using ink-jet technology. This is a dead-end strategy IMHO. Much more likely to see multi-core processor architectures rather than faster/wider units like G5 on laptops in the next few years. IBM Cell architecture is making waves in the chip architecture circles. http://www.blachford.info/computer/Cells/Cell1.html

roncross@cox.net
05-21-2005, 10:43 PM
I know that everyone is jumping on the band wagon of heat. But I am not so sure if this is the major factor. I believe the issue is related to heat only in regards to the current technology node to produce the processor. The current technology node is greater than 100nm transistor gate length. This node drives a lot of issues such as power supply, power dissipation, on/off voltages, how fast the processor speed will be, the size of the chip, etc...

However, at the 90nm technology node, power supply drops, power dissipation drops, on/off voltages drop, processor speed increases, the size of the chip will also decrease. Heat is primarily related to all of these things, but is mostly depended on power dissipation and chip size. Based on what I am hearing, G5 laptops will probably occur in the next 6 months to a year because the 90nm technology issues have been resolved.

In short, Moores Law drives how fast technology will enter into these computers systems, Apple as well as Windows computers are depended on this law. Moore's law has been around for the last 40 years and has been amazingly accurate and predictable. In short, as long as we can continue to drive down the size of the chip and decrease the transistor gate length, the heat is not really an issue.

thx
RLC

slacker
05-21-2005, 11:30 PM
Ask a high performance processor designer and he'll tell you that power is the major factor. I thought the Apple G5 was already at 90nm? True that as transistors scale and voltage drops that the active power drops also, but leakage is starting to dominate the equation (even with SOI). There are other power problems such as the front-side bus and memory that make a G5 laptop more difficult. You are right, a G5 laptop will probably happen for marketing reasons, but it will be "speed-step" scaled like some of the P4 laptops and only run at "advertised" clock rate for short bursts. I once read an article for a 2GHz Dell laptop that was 1GHz on battery power and could only run at full rate for a few seconds before being throttled, so a 1.2GHz machine was actually faster most of the time.

roncross@cox.net
05-22-2005, 12:12 AM
Ask a high performance processor designer and he'll tell you that power is the major factor.

True power is a major factor, but power dissipation is IV, current times voltage. The technology is designed so that the drive current remains the same but the voltage is reduced with each technology node so the overall power dissipation will drop. Power dissipation is mostly depended on supply voltages. The voltage has to drop because the gate oxide is also reducing at the same time. If you put to high of a voltage on the chip, the gates will pop.


I thought the Apple G5 was already at 90nm?


They are not at 90nm, but they will be very shortly. That is all I can say about this in regards to 90nm node technology.


True that as transistors scale and voltage drops that the active power drops also, but leakage is starting to dominate the equation (even with SOI).


Surprisingly enough, leakage is well controlled at the current technology node of these processor. Leakage is an issue if the gate leakage in the on state is on the same order as the off state of the system. This is generally dominated by the supply voltage and the threshold voltage of the technology node. The closer the supply voltage gets to the threshold voltage, the bigger the problems becomes. However, this is not the case at the current technology node. Generally, a decrease in the threshold voltage will result in more standby current being drawn of the system, higher leakage. Gate leakage also plays a role as well since more leakage can be expected as the technology node shrinks. This most likely will show up in inverters, NANDs and NORs. True, the CPU is built on SOI technology, but from what I understand, SOI offers less leakage than bulk technology, SOI is faster than bulk because of lower overall capacitances, hence, the reason for going to SOI technology in the first place, bulk technology is having a harder time taking advantage of the low leakage offered in SOI technology.


There are other power problems such as the front-side bus and memory that make a G5 laptop more difficult.

Ok, I really am not that verse on front-side bus speed. I am not sure if this has to be increased beyond 133MHz or 233MHz or what. But I am not so sure if this is related to heat as much as it is related to data transfer. There are enough smart people out there that will figure a way around these obstacles. One solution is to use hyper transport to get high data transfer across front-side bus. I do not know what you mean when you are speaking of memory problems in regards to G5.


thx
RLC

styrafome
05-22-2005, 11:35 PM
found this on Macosrumors!

Good lord. Has that site become any better than it was in the past, when hardly any rumors it came up with ever came true, looking entirely made up only for the purpose of bringing eyeballs to their advertisers? Seems that sites like Think Secret have been more accurate.

slacker
06-08-2005, 01:50 PM
I guess we have our answer now: never.

roncross@cox.net
06-08-2005, 11:12 PM
The next big laptop will not be a G5, it will be a Pentium 5.

thx
RLC